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OK, I think we'll kick off. Yeah. So welcome everyone to today's webinar on navigating Victoria's child employment laws in the entertainment industry. I'm your moderator today. My name is Callum Flint and I'm the team leader of Child Employment Licencing and the Advisory Services team.
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I'd like to start with an acknowledgement of the country the Woi wurrung people of the Kulin Nation as the Traditional Owners of the lands I'm speaking from today, I would like to pay my respects to their Elders both past, present and emerging, as well as any Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people joining us today.
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Our presenters today Claire Sanders, Assistant Director, Advisory Services at the Workforce Inspectorate Victoria, overseeing the child employment licencing function, Katrina Moody, Manager Youth Pathways and Transitions, Department of Education and Leisl Egan and Child Safety and Well being Advocate, Australian Broadcasting Corporation.
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Some housekeeping before we go on. Please note that we cannot provide legal advice and the content of today's presentation is for educational purposes only. We've had some great questions come in from our audience during registration and we've tailored some of our content today to provide answers. If any further questions for the presenters arise during the presentation, please type them in the questions box and
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time permitting, we'll address them during a Q&A session at the end of the broadcast. This webinar is recorded and will be emailed to you shortly after this broadcast. It will also be available on the WIV website in the coming days. During the webinar we'll be sharing links in the chat to some of the resources that will be discussed today and other helpful resources
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related to this topic. We'll also share a short feedback survey in the chat for you to complete before you leave the
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We really appreciate you taking the time to complete the survey and your feedback will help us improve our future webinars.
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So,
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we'll start the webinar with some discussion on navigating the licencing process. The audience is aware that to employ children under 15 in Victoria you must have a Child employment licence. Claire, can you briefly describe the difference between a general licence and an entertainment licence? Certainly. Thank you Callum.
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Before we delve into the different licence types, it might be helpful to clarify a few definitions under the Child Employment Act. So as I mentioned the definition of a child under the Child Employment Act means someone under 15 years of age. Children who are already 15,16 or 17, they're not covered under the Child Employment Act, so employers don't need a licence.
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From the workforce inspectorate to engage that age group to work.
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The definition of employment doesn't just mean a worker being paid to perform a task or work a shift under the act. The definition of employment is deliberately white so it extends beyond regular employment contract type of work to make sure that other arrangements involving children in employment like work are also covered too So when assessing.
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Whether an arrangement between an organisation and a child might be considered employment, it's important to look at who actually benefits from that arrangement and also whether the child is subject to direction about how that work should be undertaken and who is directing that child. So there are two different types of licences, one for general and industries, so.
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Things like retail, hospitality and one for the entertainment industry. So that's things like TV productions, still photography, theatre productions as well. And that's the focus of today's session. So it's important that applicants actually select the right licence type when they're applying for a licence because entertainment licences do have slightly different conditions.
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Now that the employer has to comply with so things like nominating an employer representative that someone who can make day-to-day decisions about the child's work and make sure that any licence conditions are met. They also they have specific responsibilities under the Act and they do require often are working with children's clearance as well and less they are exempt.
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Adhering to the mandatory code of practise for the employment of children in the entertainment industry, that's another condition of entertainment licences and will cover that in a bit more detail later in this session. Another key difference with employment in the entertainment industry is that there's no minimum age for employment and also licences last 441.
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Yeah, whereas it's true in general industries.
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I just like to jump in if I can. I often get asked by my colleagues when we're creating factual content whether what we're doing actually constitutes employment and the need to notify the regulator. With scripted, it's quite obvious they're getting paid the playing a role. But when it comes to factual, sometimes you do need to do a little bit of delving and I'll usually query how much were directing the children.
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Are we providing any scripts and he guidance, any direction? Have we set up the scenario and the filming? So an example is if we are recording a song for use in a programme and we're bringing the children in, recording the children who are singing it, it's most likely going to be employment. It's only when the work would be taking place regardless of age.
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He says involvement, that it may not be employment. So this example would be a concert in the park where children's choirs performing and the ABC have gone along to film the event. Like for something like news, if I was filming boxes with the children who were participating, it still wouldn't fall under that definition of employment. However, if I'm going there to film B roll.
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And then I want to interview the soprano of the choir. Anna pre arranged this. Suddenly I'm moving from non employment into employment. So that child might be there singing, you know, separate from our, you know, us organising it. But the interview is something that I've set up that they have to now do on top of their day. So I would then advise going on to lodge that notification.
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Covering our bases, making sure that it is in is in fact employment. Thanks Leisel. Staying with you, the ABC is a current entertainment licence holder. Can you tell us a bit about your experience in applying for a licence?
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Yeah. Overall, the process was pretty simple. We applied for a licence when the system changed over from the permit system a few years ago. And once we had all of that initial information, we've been able to copy the old data, check for any updates and then resubmit that upon our yearly application for a new licence. The most challenging part was the size of our organisation.
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We had to determine who are fit and proper person was getting all of the details of our board members, which is a very large board as well. So as you can imagine, as I said, we're a large organisation. So it was really important to ensure that all about information was correct and get that in there. But once we determined that that information was correct, it was actually a really quick.
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Turn around for approval and a great thing about the workforce inspector is that they'll give you a 30 day lead in time when your yearly licence is about to expire. It will be like hey, your licence expiration is coming up, you will need to apply for a new 1. So it's a great reminder and it's actually a really good time frame to start getting all your ducks in a row so you're not having any interruption to work.
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And one thing I'd like to say about the portal, when it comes to lodging that information in Victoria, it's actually able to house all of my previous entries. So I can go back and see who was lodged employment for the ABC, what children were employed, what the nature of the work was. And this is actually a feature that I can't access in other jurisdictions. So I do really.
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Appreciate that feature here in Vic.
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Thanks, Lisa. Claire, a question that was submitted from the audience before this session. Some employers have provided feedback to us that they are suffering from paperwork for teak, especially relating to productions of 30 or more children.
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Are there any plans that you can talk to about making this more accessible?
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Yeah, definitely. Thanks, Callum. So we are actively working on an improvement project to make sure that our systems do meet the needs of all of our stakeholders. So this will include looking at improvements on how we will users manage bulk data in our system, the licence holders who do employ large numbers of children and particularly for those in the entertainment industry.
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He managed several projects often with with large numbers of children, so the solutions were looking at will hopefully reduce the need for information to be re entered when it comes to things like employment details and children's details. If the employer has already notified us of the children of a child, perhaps some previously. There has also been some improvements to the general performance of our portal. So that means less time outs and better.
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Speed of processing as well, which has improved things. It's also worth noting that multiple children can actually be notified at once in the one submission, which does save time. We do see employers sometimes submitting a notification per child even when the employment details are the same. You can actually group them under the same notification. There's a little button down the bottom.
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Staying at another child which can save a bit of time, but we are always open to to feedback and suggestions will be touching base with stakeholders as we progress through any system improvements and very open to feedback in that space.
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Oh, thanks Claire. And late, so we'll move now into talking about supervision and the safety process is an included some information about school exemption from that perspective, Claire, can you walk us through what's required of employers of children under 15 and why it's so important?
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Yeah, certainly. So I think it's helpful before we dive into this section to look at the overarching purpose of the Child Employment Act. So the act exists to protect children from performing work that could be harmful to their health, their safety, their well being or development, but also that could prejudice their attendance at school.
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Or their capacity to benefit from instruction. So there's several things that employers do need to do to protect kids in the workplace. Now, we won't go into into detail in each obligation here, but some helpful resources will be posted in the chat. So employers do need to make sure that kids are supervised at all times, including during auditions and casting.
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Processes by someone with working with children clearance or an exemption, so for instance our parent or guardian supervising their own child would not need a working with Jordan clearance. We have unfortunately also seen some really horrific cases recently that highlight the potential harms that that can happen to children through lack of appropriate supervision. So this is really important.
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To make sure that employers get right, kids also aren't just mini adults in the workplace. They can't do the same work that adults do. Employers have to make sure that they take that into account, making sure that kids can only perform light work and that any potential risks are appropriately mitigated. So we do have some really great.
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Resource is on this, we will share in the chat as well after the session.
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Also, employers have to make sure that the kids only work the hours and are given the rest breaks that they're supposed to. So if there are adjustments needed, we can assess this on a case by case basis if there's variations to hours and will cover that in a little bit. But we do have to be satisfied that any different arrangement doesn't adversely impact.
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The child or their schooling. If the arrangement does involve being away from school from a period of time, that's when a school exemption process with the Department of Education kicks in, which Katrina can talk to.
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Thanks, Claire. I'm not gonna dive straight into that, but I just wanted to I guess point out to your point that one of the things we really look at and an want recognition for is that working with children does look different because it is different. And therefore there are a lot of supports and requirements. And we know that sometimes paperwork for tea can be a very real.
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Thing, but it's, it's really to ensure that those protective measures in place to enable these opportunities and that they're fantastic opportunities. We don't want them to be barriers. But when you think about young people across the board, very different needs and and then it would be really daunting being in such an adult dominated environment where everybody knows what they're doing.
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Well, in theory, so ensuring that they've got somebody trusted and to go to is really important and it should be a really good opportunity as well for a partnership between, you know, the family and the young person, the employer as well and and the school all coming to the table to ensure that it's fantastic for them.
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That's sort of the point, Katrina. I, I suppose we'll jump into it now. What does the school exemption look like from the school side or from the view of the Department of Education?
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Yeah, Thanks, Callum. So when we talk about exemption school exemptions for the entertainment industry, it helps to be really clear that this is, you know, a specific and tightly controlled type of exemption. Schooling is compulsory for young people from 6 to 17 years of age, and we need to ensure that that remains a priority for our young people.
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But we also don't want to get in the way of the fantastic opportunities that sometimes pop up for these young people. So from the school side, the process usually begins when a parent or carer will approach the school with a request. It's often linked to a specific opportunity, for example a filming schedule or performance commitment. The school will then have to look at what?
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The details of the opportunity are understand the time commitment and duration, consider the impacts on that young persons learning and also consider if there's the possibility that this work could occur during outside of school hours for example. But most importantly, unlike our longer term exemptions which sometimes pop up, this isn't about.
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A student leaving school altogether. So it's about how do we support this opportunity while keeping the student connected and succeeding in their education. So we don't want to be a barrier, but we also have to be very careful about how we manage this and how the impacts of how long they're out of school.
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And what they're doing can impact them. So we want to ensure that by accessing this there supported and they're not then struggling afterwards to catch up with their peers. So the principle is ultimately responsible for assessing the application and they would consider things like whether it's genuinely short term.
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And time limited what the students learning needs and progress has been. So for example, if they're really struggling in schooling, then that might be a consideration as to whether they approve the request and also then how they're going to manage any of the missed learning that's going to occur. So ultimately the principles responsible for.
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Deciding the outcome an also they're allowed to stipulate if any tutoring or additional conditions are required as a provision for that opportunity. So this could be things like learning plans or if the young person has a specifically important assessment or exam coming up, ensuring that they are able to still do that so.
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Very balanced.
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We want the opportunity, but obviously to make sure that it's it's measured and and strongly considered from a department side of things. We want to ensure that obviously there's appropriate oversight and that we're supporting our young people. We have to ensure that it meets the requirements of ministerial.
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Order 714, which I assure you is not an exciting read, but our policy page which hopefully will be shared in the chat is a great source of information if you've got any questions about what the process looks like. But ultimately key takeaways is it can't be an open ended arrangement. You know, they have to be to a specific employer.
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A specific event and for a set period of time.
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And ensuring that with we're balancing those needs of amazing opportunity to access this kind of employment, build up their resume, but also not wanting to negatively impact them beyond that.
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I just like to add, it's really important to be prepared if the school has concerns about the child missing their education. As Catrinas pointed out. There was one time that we wanted to work with a child in WA and take them overseas for a performance. We had a week of pre trip filming plans and then about 10 days overseas.
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The parents put in the request and the principle initially said no. And this was something you know, this was like 10 years ago we went prepared for. We were like, oh, what do we do? And it looked as if we have to do all of our pre trip filming outside of school hours and on weekends to reduce the impact on the child's education. So I encourage the producer.
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It was on the ground in WA to have a conversation with the principle, the parents and child to see if some middle ground could be reached. What were the principles concerns? Why did they initially say no? And the principle was concerned about how much school the child had missed previously outside of our employment of them so working with them.
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We put together an educational support plan and then the principle was happy to grant that exemption. So when we work with schools, we really need to ensure that we're actively working with them. We can't just put in a request the day before we need it and assume it's going to be signed. We have to give them time to communicate what their needs are as well.
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Well, yeah, despite the reservations about after school, that does sound like the ideal result for all parties concerned. To touch on the other end of the spectrum, have you been on any shoots where budget has put stressors on safety standards or wear safety has been a concern? How did you handle that and remain compliant?
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Yeah, I'm sorry. When you talk about compliance with the regulators, you're talking about child safety and this is just something that you can't compromise on regardless of budget size. So when I worked in low budget children's television, our focus was children. We put them at the centre of things. And once you've done that, all of your compliance will naturally fit into.
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Twice it's when we don't send to children that we can see breaches of compliance or unsafe child practises. I was working on a live programme once for a different network and a woman was to be interviewed, filmed live an she arrived and she brought her baby to set. And again, this was like 1012 years ago and given the nature of life.
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Filming, The senior producer at the time said that she could give her interview with her child in her arms on camera, and this was actually a breach. There was no knowledge of what the baby had done in the lead up to the work with us that day. That mother may have been doing interview rounds, you know, doing the press circuit and that baby could have been tagging along with her. This could have been that.
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4th consecutive hour of filming for for all We knew. And a recurring issue that I see is that the budget may not include supervision, effective supervision of children. So this is actually really mindful of, particularly in low budget shoots. A child supervisor should have no other role or responsibility on the day. It can't just be a PA who has 100.
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Other things to do, the supervisor is there to ensure the child's best interests. So if a parent is involved in the filming, in the filming with the child, if they're going to be on camera as well, how can that parent effectively supervise their child in the moment if they're thinking about their own responses, their own performance. So in the case of the baby in the interview.
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Ideally that person would have brought along another adult, their partner, or you know, a family member to mind the baby while she took part in the interview. Or the production should have had someone with a working with children check step in to look after that baby. Because if you send to the child, you're suddenly asking questions about how the production can change to.
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Get the needs of the child rather than the other way around.
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Yeah.
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I'm.
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Did you want to talk about how you've integrated team members introductions?
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Integrated team members into productions in regards to being supervisors. Alright bit about super prices an.
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Still at the time time spent, but if not, we can move forward. No, absolutely. So when we when we have ABC people being the supervisors of children, they are required to have their Victorian working with children check and so often they will be a member of our team. But what we do is that we schedule their entire day to be the supervisor.
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For that child, so they're not required to, you know, run off and take a meeting, take a phone call. And that's something we sometimes see as well when we bring in family members, parents to supervise their child. They might be like, Oh yeah, it's like a work from home day. I'm just going to take a work call and it's like, well, no, unfortunately you are here to be the supervisor of the child, so.
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That is your role for today. And when we have multiple children, obviously multiple parents coming in is not ideal. We don't want ten children, 10 sets of parents coming in. So that's when will often look at a staff member being the supervisor for the children that day and then have effective ratios of one adults too, you know, 6-8.
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All ten children, depending on the age range in needs.
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Yeah. Well, thanks for the extra context. That's really good.
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We'll move now into the third segment of our web and R and discuss implementing the mandatory code. So in addition to the Child Employment Act, employers with entertainment licences must also abide by the mandatory Code of Practise for the Employment of Children in Entertainment, which is a ministerial order that contains additional.
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Provisions specific to the employment of children in the entertainment sector. Claire, can you talk a bit about which parts of the mandatory code we as the regulator would most want employers to be aware of, whether they knew or highly experienced?
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Certainly. Thanks Callum. So we know that work in the entertainment industry can be quite complex. There's lots of logistics involved. You know, lasers provide some examples of some of the thinking that that has to go on with large productions and things don't always go to plan in entertainment as well. I'm sure you all know that. So it is important that licence holders are across when the the work might not.
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Align with ours or the pattern of work that the magic magic tree code stipulates and when they might need to request a variation to the mandatory code. So we do tend to get quite large and complex requests to vary the mandatory code quite late in the piece for productions because licence holders haven't turned their mind.
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To the impact of certain schedules or or unexpected events on the child that they're actually employing. So again, likely said it's it's not centering the child in that production. So it is important that licence holders think ahead trying to account for things like, you know, technical issues that could delay the start time of a show or, you know, the arrival time.
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The child versus when they are required to be on stage or you know travel time between different locations, those things that may mean that a child is actually working longer hours than the code stipulates. And therefore the employer might need to look at the variation request. So for us at the workforce inspectorate assessing these requests.
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It isn't 1 size fits all approach, particularly when children in the entertainment industry, yeah, they can vary from babies through to to 14 year olds. So we do need to assess those variation requests on a case by case basis and be satisfied that the health, education, welfare of the child won't suffer because of that new arrangement.
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It's also really important for licence holders to be aware of what some prohibited conduct under the out and the coat. An employer has to take reasonable steps to prevent prohibited conduct, so that includes any behaviour that might socially isolate the child, intimidate, threaten, frightened or humiliate.
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That's prohibited conduct. Any actions that may make the child distressed for the purposes of eliciting an emotional reaction, for example, for a TV show, that's prohibited conduct. Or exposing a child to inappropriate adult themes. So things like nudity, sex, violence, drug use, that's prohibited conduct as well.
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Now that doesn't mean that children can't work on productions that may contain those themes, but it must be carefully coordinated with the child safety and well being front of mind and appropriate obviously for the age and development of the child as well.
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Um.
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Yeah. And it's, it's important to understand how age inappropriate content or themes can impact a child's well being. So we need to ask, are they aware of what they're portraying, saying, doing? And what will it mean to have that content out in the real world and in the digital space?
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And we really need to start thinking about the separation of the child actor versus the child character just 'cause a child character is in a particular scene, in acting a certain way, we still have to be protecting the child actor. So this might mean that you need to prepare the child, you need to talk to them about what the content is going to be like, minimise the risk of harm.
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Trauma to them by limiting their interaction with certain production elements include their parents and guardians and the regulator in the discussion about how you're going to do this. So you're submitting a notification, you're submitting things like you know the script, the child version of the script, how you're going to protect the child around seeing to be all of that.
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Sort of stuff. So for scripted content, I've had to advise things like a child version of the script where we've removed all of the swearing things that weren't relevant to their performance with advised breaking down a fight scene or breaking down injury makeup and let the child see those things before they come in.
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To the set, into the scene, and even shoot the child in reversals. Separate the child actor from the action in the scene, but then when you hold it together later on, it appears that the child character is present within that scene. For factual content when the themes have been quite mature or the child is talking about a personal situation.
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Which, you know, can sometimes involve trauma, mental health needs, things like that. Sometimes something like a psychological assessments required. And I always make sure that we're tracing informed consent. So does that child in their family understand that their story is going to be out there on our platform and in the social space I.
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Also encourage a follow up once the content has ad because sometimes telling our personal stories, seeing them played back to us, can be quite confronting as well. Understanding Now all this is real, this is out there. So it's not about watering down the content of the script or the record, but rather looking at how those themes can affect a child and how we're going to, you know.
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Work around that and protect the child actor or child participant.
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I just want to jump in there if I can 'cause that's a really good point, Liesl and I think.
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One of the things we need to really understand and acknowledge is that the understanding and willingness of a young person can vary quite significantly, not only to their peers but also to what may be the parent has or can consent to. And this can go in both directions. Sometimes the the parent may over commit something that the child is not.
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Comfortable with or it can be that the child has an the parents not comfortable with that. So understanding how that may impact and how to have that conversation is really important and ensure that I think the young person especially is aware of what the actual content is, how it can be used and.
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Especially how that may or may not impact them in their social settings where we know we've got an awful lot of social media now and all of their peers will be on it and straight on to them about it.
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Yeah, it's really important thing for employers and parents and children to be aware of from the employer side. Leisel, how have you handled Alec booking or appropriately notifying the workforce inspectorate of children that are working when off and you're in a scenario where call sheets are not finalised until like.
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Less than 48 hours pre shoot.
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Yeah, absolutely. Television schedules super fun. So the workforce inspector at the great thing is, is that because we've moved away from that old permit system, we no longer require a certain time period in order to lodge a notification with them. This is saved us so much time at our end because it used to be.
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Three days and then it was extended to five days. NSW has seven days just as a point of interest, but with the workforce inspector it we can lodge it as late of the morning of the work if necessary. In these instances where I've got just little time, I'll often pre email the workforce in Spectra and be like hey, heads up, I've got some work coming up.
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Next Monday, the 27th, unfortunately I'm not going to get the details of the children until the day off, so will be lodging them immediately after the employment or something like that just so they can keep an eye out for it. Be like, Oh yeah, cool. That work has already happened. You know, they're looking at it with that lens rather than its work that's coming up. And that's usually when.
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The children haven't been locked in or they are having some issues with the forms getting those back with the remember not everyone has printers at home. You know, there might not only have it, they might only have a phone rather than a home computer. So, you know, being mindful that around the accessibility of the form, some people just need a few more days. They won't turn it around.
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You in their lunch break, like I expect everyone to do. It's really important as well that even though they've got that stipulation, we're always working to do this and lodge this as early as possible because we need to give the parents time to understand those forms and understand the work that we're asking the children to do in a bigger production where roles have been cast.
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Obviously there's a lot more leading time, there's auditions, there's all rehearsals, things like that. That date is looming for them from a really long time away, so it's a bit easier. But when we're in the factual world, when we've got a record coming up tomorrow that you know, we're just organising this afternoon and Child Fallen sick, we need to find someone else, it's a little bit more.
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Crazy. So that's why when we're providing those forms were explaining to them this is a child information form. You use this form to tell us if any additional needs that your child has that we can accommodate as their employer. And this is the parental consent form which outlines the work we're going to do with the child. It will tell you what day description of the work. It will give you all of that.
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Information So when we've got that short turn around time, just really stressing the parents while we're getting those forms, we need them before the work starts and then giving their workforce inspector at their heads up that will be lodging a little bit late or the day off.
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Says I'll just jump in there. Thank you for bringing up the forms. It's another thing that we're, we're looking at revamping a little bit to make sure that they're easy to use for parents to fill in just on notifications. You know, since we've moved from a permits to a licencing system, it is hopefully a lot easier for licence holders.
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Instead of having to put in a permit for for every instance of employment, you know employees just have to notify us. So notifications can actually be submitted to us at anytime before the expiry of the licence. So if you have forgotten to submit a notification prior to the work taking place, that's perfectly OK. Parental consent and child information.
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Forms of course have to be completed before the employment, but the notification can be put afterward, lodged afterwards. But I will say submitting notifications ahead of time is still recommended. We do review notifications at the Workforce Inspectorate, so we can often flag with the employer before the workers even taking place, you know that.
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I may need a variation request because the hours have stipulated, you know, may actually not be in line with the mandatory code for the entertainment industry or flagging if the upcoming employment you may not be appropriate. Maybe you know that they may be in breach of the Act. So submitting the notification ahead of time, you know, it safeguards the child.
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And also safeguards the employer as well.
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Yeah. Thanks, Claire.
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Speaking of time frames, Katrina, how long should employers allow for principals to assess school exemption requests?
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Yeah, thanks, Kellam. And I guess it's a bit of a trick question because the the responsibility actually sits with the principle, not the employer in terms of the decisions being made. So for these exemptions, decision does lie with the principle. And so in theory they can be shorter.
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Waiting time frame technically the policy requires a principle decision to be in writing to the student and parents within seven days of the application being received. So we really like you know, if this questions or concerns or complexities for that to be flagged in advance as well. Early notification, we love it.
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Sorry, the principals consideration time can vary depending on obviously the duration of the Employment Opportunity, the impacts on their learning or needs and also the complexity of the student themselves. So some examples would be a principle can put in the expectation that.
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For a period of employment over three days, there has to be an absence learning plan. So the school will have to work to ensure that for the three days or more that there is a plan in place of how what work they're going to Miss Anne, how they're going to still progress in that alongside their peers where the duration is over 9 days.
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The code actually requires the employer to provide daily tutoring I can get into a bit later, but that would be for the remainder of the work duration, so that also requires quite a bit of planning from the school end about. Again, what would that work look like? How do we work with the tutor in developing a plan?
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For that young person and on rare occasions the schools, the school principle can also stipulate that additional tutoring requirements may be expected as as a condition of their acceptance. And realistically that will probably happen around if you've got a senior secondary student who is leading into you know.
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They see exams, for example, then we really want to make sure that any gap in their education is covered as well as possible.
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So whilst these tasks in themselves may not be extensive from an outsiders perspective, when you take into consideration teacher workloads and school staff in general workloads, they can add up quite a bit. So we definitely say a greater leading time is recommended. And then as Lisa.
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Pointed out before, there are rare occasions where a principle will actually say no, so ultimately that is their right to do so. But any application that's receives a no response, that then has to be submitted to the Department of Education for our regional director to review.
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And kind of have the final say as to, you know, are we willing to override that decision, which would be rare 'cause normally the principals know the students very well, but that in itself can take some extra time as well. So whilst we have a time frame, it doesn't really incorporate all the planning that.
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Necessarily goes into these opportunities as well around the approval process.
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OK. Thank you for that, Trainer. We've reached the end about the core questions that we had. So we have, as I mentioned, had some questions from the audience during registration and some more have come through just during the course of the panel and I'd like to put them to our panellists.
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I'm if you have any other questions that have arisen, please put them in the chat now. Although the questions box or if you wish to, you can head to the Workforce Inspectorate's web page and submit an online inquiry there.
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I'll stay with Katrina here because you mentioned tutoring requirements. So the question that came in was do tutoring requirements after 9 days of missed school reset every school term? And as a follow up, if children have been cheated during the school holidays, can those hours of tutoring be banked and applied two days of work during the school term?
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Yeah, this is, this is a big one, sorry, chittering requirements. We get quite a few questions both from the school end and also from potential employers and families. So this is a good opportunity to try and clarify some of those. So the tutoring requirements are for the duration of the opportunity with the same employer. So there's.
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Obviously some common sense there. If it's over 9 days then and there spread over a six month period then this probably you know some negotiation that can take place there. But if they are consecutive days then absolutely we would want to ensure that there is the requirements for tutoring.
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Being met. So I guess things to consider would be that the expectation doesn't reset following school holidays or curriculum days and that there are quite a lot of requirements about the tutoring component themselves So I pointed out earlier about our our policy page which.
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Emma has very thankfully put in the chat for you which goes into a lot more detail about not only our requirements but also the codes requirements. But some of the key ones to note are that if the principle requires tutoring as a condition of the exemption, then the employer must engage in.
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Shooter and the shooter has to be a registered teacher, so it can't just be somebody that you've sourced.
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I won't say out on the street, but you know, through Facebook as a as a tutor have to be registered teacher Ann not only that, but they actually have to be able to deliver that education based on the students age and their education level. And if the principle doesn't actually stipulate.
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Any additional tutoring requirements? Then the code does set the mandatory minimum requirements for that. So once a student has missed the equivalent of nine school days with the same employer, then the employer engages a tutor. The tutoring has to be for a minimum of two hours each school day for the rest of the employment.
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Or you can average it out to about 10 hours per week over a four week. So the employer has to ensure that that tutor actually has appropriate time to consult with the students school to regularly communicate with the school to develop an education plan that's tailored for that young person. So.
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Is often a lot of time considerations that need to be put in place around enabling that, so you want that leading time to really plan that out and have that connection and communication and enable that person to report back to the school as well and just too probably.
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Clarify tutoring can't be banked, it's not to do it ahead of time and an it counts across the board, but also having said that, it's not expected to be done during school holidays or weekends or if it the work takes place after hours.
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It's just for the school days.
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Thanks. Trying out some really good clarification. We've had another one that's come through from the audience that you may be able to answer but maybe not. There's a question about the school exemption form and we've been asked is there a way that we could look at or that maybe the department could look at making a more user friendly form for parents?
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Schools to complete.
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Oh.
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So we're doing a lot of work at the moment across the exemption space more broadly around updating our policies and also our forms. I will say that exemptions to the entertainment industry aren't the focus at the moment, but they're absolutely on the list. So we will be.
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Reworking that form and hopefully lining it up and making it digital like we're trying to do with the other types of exemption forms.
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That's really good. Thanks. I'm we've had a couple of different questions about whether or not a particular period of entertainment should apply for a licence, so.
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We might start there and then go into a bit more detail, but one for Claire. How can a member of the public confirm if they're required to apply for licence? A couple of examples as an extracurricular theatre company. Children pay to be members and put on productions a couple of times of year. Other other examples is family influences or creators and how would they know?
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I need to apply for a licence. Yeah look at goes back to right at the start talking about the different definitions under the act. So as I mentioned they are the definitions of employment is is deliberately why to try and capture some different arrangements that may actually be employment. So you know emerging.
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Industries, things like influences, you know, that's that's an emerging industry may not be classic. You know, when we think about work, you know, unemployment type relationship, we may not instantly think of things like influences. So it's going back to.
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You know it when we assess whether an organisation and a child, the arrangement might be employment, who benefits from the arrangement, You know, is it for the benefit of, you know, maybe the influence of works as part of a company? You know, it could be for the theatre production, maybe there, you know.
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Ticketed events in there, it's for the benefit of the the company that puts on the performance is the child being directed to perform that work a particular way or you know who is directing the child to perform work in particular way. There are also, you know, some family business exemptions as well that exist under the act.
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There's still obligations under the Act for for certain things that even family businesses have to abide by. However they may not require a licence. So it's looking a bit more holistically at the Act. What's actually being asked the child. So it's not, it has to be assessed on a case by case basis. It can't only be one type of employment.
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Means a licence. One thing I will say though, a child employment licences is free, so if you were unsure, it's best to apply for a licence. Give us as much detail as you can about the possible arrangement that you're thinking about and then we can actually help assess that as well.
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Yeah, I just wanted to add to the influencer discussion. It's very, it's very nature as well. So apologies if this doesn't apply to everyone attending today. But often as a broadcaster, we have worked with some influences, some child influences and they have created content that has sat alongside other content.
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But technically they are working for us in that moment of creating content. And often we've had to say to the parent, this is the mandatory code, your child cannot work more than these hour's. How does this fit in with their schooling? It's a really big discussion with them about how they're going to remain compliant with the code. So it is an area where.
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They definitely need more education, parents and child influences to understand that what they're doing is actually moving into the realm of work, regardless of payment and things like that, and knowing sort of how they produce their content and they do it all in one batch. And then they spend months like, you know, editing that content and then dropping it.
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Things like that, all of that is the work. All of that is the lead up. All of that's the follow on. So it is discussions that we're having as well because we don't have this sort of legislation around that we're trying to make it fit to this new emerging area. So yeah, it's very interesting. So it's an absolute watch. Watch this space for us as well. And again, it's looking at who benefits.
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Potentially there's some arrangements where you know you as the ABC benefit from that, that employment that the child's performing therefore potentially could be the employer.
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Yeah, yeah. And just gonna circle back to our class started with.
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We always are going to recommend if you have any doubts at all, please apply for a licence. It's the best way of us assessing the work because we have everything in writing and we can ask clarifying questions that are relevant to exactly what you're doing.
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Jeffrey, So please get in touch with us that way. Talk to us about what you're doing. If you don't need a licence, we will specify, will talk you through, will say it looks like this doesn't need a licence. Do you still want to go ahead with it? But it's the best way of having that conversation with us.
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We've got a couple of questions about supervision. So I'm just having a quick review of the questions that have come through because as an audience you guys are amazingly active. So we have a question about where companies are asking child supervisors to take on additional duties without additional help. Is that something that?
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The workforce inspector would like to hear about and adding on to that, how would we, the inspectorate, look at stopping both large and small productions from using a body on set with another job being recorded as a supervisor?
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Um.
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Claire, is that something you feel like you can talk to or laser, is that something you have any experience with?
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I'm having to jump in quickly, but I think this is possibly more of a Claire question. Yeah, it is. It's really, it is really challenging. I have been that person, I've been that person organising supervisors. I've said to parents, could you put your laptop away please? You were looking after the children today. It is something that you know when it comes to.
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This sort of thing, it is educating the managers, it is educating the production executives, the people that the tops of these production. So that might be a future, you know, workforce inspectorate session for them understanding that it is a risk for people to have multiple roles. And so I always come back to risk.
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I'm like, look, I'm sorry, but if you've got someone stepping out his on radio taking a meeting escorting people again, when really they're supposed to be sitting here with the child in between takes. There is the chance that child could wander off. There is a child that child come loss become injured in a space like the ABC, which is very big wondering to a section and see some.
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You know, horrific vision that someone is editing and things like that. So I always pull it back to risk when I'm trying to make people understand that there is a very strong risk here if we do not have a dedicated supervisor. And it might be that like, you know, it is that the supervisors are.
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Understanding that they can say no an I know that that comes with the manager needs to support that. If someone's like, hey, can you do this on the day? It's just like I'm actually this child supervisor today unable to do that. You'll need to find someone else where I can do that once the children have left set. But I think it might be something you know whether the workforce in Spectra. I know that.
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I've got their record of supervisors, so when someone is supervising a child, we should be writing down who that supervisor is, what they're working with, children, check clearances or whether they are exempted, their apparent or their teacher. They've got their Vits. So when they do an audit, if something has gone wrong, they're coming back going who is the supervisor here?
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And that is also something that they can discipline employers with saying, well, you know what happened here. Tell us about your supervision, supervision requirements at the time. But yet I'm now rambling over to Claire love the inside space. So we do conduct audits and campaigns targeting particular.
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Areas so that is something to note. You know, we are out and about and visiting employers. So you don't want to have a lack of lack of supervision, appropriate supervision for a child onset. And then we we, we, we ask some questions. You know, we can also, as Liesl said, request supervision logs of who's actually been supervising a child an and look at things.
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That way I think there was a question there is well about should we report certain things? Absolutely. If there's anything that doesn't feel quite right, you know, even if you just you know, as a customer at a business as an example, there's something that doesn't seem quite right. Or if you think you know, there's child safe standards that haven't been appropriately metal supervision requirements that haven't been appropriately met.
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You can report matters to us on line. You can even do it an honest anonymously as well. We do receive anonymous tip offs so we can also look at anything any wrong alleged wrongdoing through that way as well. But if you're unsure about requirements, you can you can give us a call. We're always here to to clarify any.
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Concerns that employers might have an and yeah, he'll provide you with some some certainty.
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The employment.
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Thanks, Claire. I think we might have time for one more question, Ann. This is one that's coming earlier about incorporated associations, including community theatre, seeing individual committee members taking on liability for entire productions regarding employing children. So the question here is if a committee member is not comfortable with taking on this liability, what options are available?
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Freedom.
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Yes, the tricky 1. So look, employing children under 15 to work it is a big deal. It has to be taken seriously so.
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Particularly in the entertainment industry, you know, children can be engaged to work, you know, as young as infants, toddlers in primary school age. That's particularly honourable group of employees. So while an organisation might be the licence holder, there's real people, representatives of that employer who are responsible for making sure that the employment of children.
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Complies with the licence conditions so who might be a considered an official representative differs depending on the organisation. Typically someone with significant decision making powers within the business you know such as an owner or a director or partner and executive. These people are offices under the law.
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In the entertainment industry, obviously mentioned employee representatives as well plays significant role in making sure kids are kept safe. There are certain protections for officers of incorporated associations, but for that one.
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I'd recommend seeking legal advice ultimately if the employer.
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And the representatives of that employer, if they're not comfortable taking on the responsibilities involved in employing children, they just shouldn't. There are certain obligations and responsibilities being a licence holder and an official representative of the employers, the licence holder, that simply have to be met. So yeah, I'd recommend seeking legal advice on particular company structures.
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And who may be considered in your organisation? An officer under the law, but making sure that everyone is comfortable taking on the responsibilities of ensuring safety in the workplace for kids is imperative.
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Yeah, so very important. Thanks for that, Claire.
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Ms just dropped the link in the chat. If you found had a question for us or you have further questions, please send us a inquiries or online portal. Otherwise, we're going to start looking at wrapping up. We've covered so much ground today.
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I'd like to ask our guest panellists for their final thoughts on employment of children in the entertainment sector. Liesl, do you want to go first? Yeah, Happily. Happily. Yeah. So I really just want to dress like some of the language we can use around this, you know, paperwork fatigue barrier.
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What I really want to do is try and flip that emotion on its head. You know, this is something that the process of employment, getting a licence, the forms, the supervision, all of that stuff, these are just the logistics that we're putting in place.
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The nuts and bolts and they can seem a little bit onerous, but I think we have to start thinking about this as we are rigorous around child safety. Victoria is actually one of the few states that has a regulator that can put these processes in place. You know, I mentioned WA before. WA doesn't have any regulator. I could have gone ahead.
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Taking that kid out of school, worked with him for 10 weeks, you know, if the principle had said that was OK, no one would be tapping me on the shoulder about that. But here in Victoria we have this regulator and their centred around child safety. So they're the ones that are setting the bar for child safety in Australia and in entertainment. An we can be part of that. We can continue telling Australian kids stories.
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But do it in a really Safeway and as I said earlier, if you're centering the child in your work, half the work's already done. All of this compliance stuff will just fall in naturally. So it is a little bit of a mind shift. It is a bit like, OK, we're working with children were going into a kid set. This is not an adult set with kids on it. We're going into a kid set today. Everyones mindful of that. What do we need?
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I'm putting in place. So yeah, if we just sort of flipped on its head and come to it with a real sort of positive, rigorous way of doing things, we know that we're being child safe. So yeah, I, I always applaud, even though some of the times the processes can seem quite a lot, particularly start getting to 30 plus children, you know, this is just what we have to do. If I was bringing a dog on set.
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I'd have to be following the state law in regards to that. This is what we need to be doing to be working with children in Vic.
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Yeah, Thanks, Lazer. Katrina.
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Thanks, Callum. I agree there's been a lot of information today, but hopefully it's been really useful for people. I guess my key takeaways would be just a reminder that we want to support these opportunities from department of Perspective, but depending on the young person circumstances, there may just need to be some additional leading time or?
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Or planning time that's attached to it. So just to be conscious of that and really work closely in a partnership with the school and the family about what that looks like. And also just I guess on the flip side, we work really closely with workforce inspector at around the safety of our young people. So if there are any.
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Concerns about breaches like that was spoken about before whether there regardless of what party they raised with if it's relating to a school age student then the Department of Ed and workforce inspector at work closely together to assess those bright potential breaches and address any concerns raised so.
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It's definitely a partnership approach, but if anybody does have any questions about the process or requirements, you know, we're a pretty friendly bunch. So please reach out to the Youth Pathways and Transitions team at the Department of Ed. And I might ask the team to send around some broad contact details for you all, but it's sort of a no wrong door.
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Approach and we're very happy to have a chat.
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Yeah. Thanks, Katrina.
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Oh, thank you to all the presenters today at Lisa Egan, Katrina Moody, and Claire Sanders. To the audience, if you haven't already, please subscribe to the WIV newsletter to stay up to date with Workplace Laws will be notified of any future webinars. Before you leave, please complete our short survey. We greatly appreciate your feedback.
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If you have any further questions, contact our friendly advisory team at the contact details and on the chat.
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You can submit an online inquiry and you can also give us a call.
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Thanks to everyone for taking the time to join us, and we look forward to seeing you at our next webinar. Until then, stay safe, have a good week, goodbye.
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