[A blue screen appears with text that reads ‘Subject Matters: A guide to teaching in Victoria. Vodcast hosted by Gorgi Coghlan’. ]
Gorgi Coghlan, Host:
Hello and welcome to Subject Matters. The vodcast series that aims to share all you need to know about teaching in Victoria, I'm Gorgi Coghlan an Australian TV presenter, and former secondary school teacher with a passion for biology, science, and storytelling. And throughout this series, I'm going to be joined by some incredible inspiring guests who are at the frontline of the education profession. From new to experienced teachers, we're going to be chatting about everything from people's misconceptions about teaching through to the best bits about the job and how you can train to teach in Victoria.
Gorgi:
Welcome to episode three. Today we're tackling the question, what are the myths and misconceptions of teaching. We're chatting to Josephine Phillips and Broady Kata about their experiences of teaching and some of the common misconceptions they hear from family and friends.
Josephine Phillips, Secondary School Teacher:
Hi Gorgi. I am Josephine Phillips. I am a secondary biology, science and maths teacher. And I teach at a large secondary school in the South Eastern Suburbs of Melbourne.
Broady Kata, Secondary School Teacher:
Hi, I'm Broady Kata. I am an English and humanities teacher. And I work in a school in the south east region of Melbourne.
Gorgi:
Broady, you have been teaching for 12 years I understand. Take us through how you got into teaching, what subjects you teach and why you love it.
Broady:
All right, I've been teaching for nearly 12 years. I teach English and humanities. And one of the things that makes me really happy about teaching is understanding young people, understanding their interests and sort of guiding them, being a mentor to students and guiding them in areas that students themselves aren't aware of. I want students to be able to see themselves as capable of doing things they never imagined seeing themselves doing.
Gorgi:
Josephine, take us through your story as a teacher, maybe how long you've been teaching, where you're teaching and the subjects that you teach.
Josephine:
I'm in my fifth year of teaching, so still relatively new to the profession. I teach biology, science and mathematics which I absolutely love. I moved from Country Victoria to study science in Melbourne. It was in my second year of my science degree that I realised that after science I wanted to go into teaching, so then I went on to study a master's of teaching, down here and luckily picked up a job in the South Eastern Suburbs teaching at a secondary school. I think in my first year of teaching, I realised that it was for me, I found my fit. And I can't imagine myself doing anything else. And I think one day I aspire to be a principal, possibly even higher and hopefully back in regional Victoria where I'm from.
Gorgi:
Let's kick it off with talking about some of these misconceptions and myths that people have around teaching, and I think you might agree with me, it comes from the fact that unlike other industries, everybody went to school. So, they all feel like they have this knowledge and rite of passage and almost ownership of what school was because it was all predetermined a lot of their judgement and misconceptions on their experience of school, and the teachers that they had in their lives. So, did people ever try and put you off teaching before you joined, Broady?
Broady:
I think my circle is quite different from the typical circle you would have amongst teachers, so a lot of my peers didn't necessarily have those kinds of jobs. So I kind of felt like a rockstar amongst my group when I said I wanted to be a teacher. And so they were gunning for me. They wanted me to be a teacher because if I was to enter that industry, to them, they made it as well.
Gorgi:
And they could see your natural alignment and affinity for it.
Broady:
Yeah, definitely. They knew that I am naturally disposed to communicating really well with people. I get along with people really well, and I think fundamentally I care. And so teaching was just something that I had to do.
Gorgi:
You were born to do it.
Gorgi:
Josephine, you had to choose really between science and education. It came to a bit of a crossroad for you. Did you have anyone saying to you, "Go down to science and not education?"
Josephine:
I don't think explicitly but there was definitely that undercurrent growing up I think. I remember my friends vividly saying in high school, "those that can't do, teach." So, I think going into a science degree, it wasn't straight away that I thought of teaching but now I can't imagine myself doing anything else. I feel like I was born to teach and I absolutely love it.
I think one of the things that I've found in teaching is that people see it as just that one job. And you're a classroom teacher and that's it for the rest of your life. But I think that couldn't be more opposite for me. I'm someone who loves constantly challenging myself and I think as educators it's really important to model to our students that we are learners as well and that we're in a community with them. So for me I have sort of jumped at any leadership opportunity that I've been fortunate enough to receive and I've had some terrific mentors in my school that have encouraged me down that path and really helped find my passion in educational leadership. So, I went into a head of year eight position in my second year of teaching and then was a head of sub school in my third and fourth year of teaching. So working in that student management, student wellbeing side has completely changed the way I think about classroom teaching. And recently this year I've just started in a curriculum role looking at STEAM and primary school partnerships.
Gorgi:
Wow. And aren't you also studying, Josephine?
Josephine:
I am, yeah. So, this year I've started my master's of educational leadership and management in the hope of one day becoming a principal, an assistant principal in the next couple of years hopefully. But I find not just doing that course, I find there's so many opportunities particularly within the government system for us to undertake professional learning, so through Bastow and other things like that, I've been able to do some emerging leaders courses and I'm doing a course on how to be an effective, professional coach with colleagues, which is really useful in my curriculum role.
Gorgi:
Wow, that really blows that myth, doesn't it Josephine, that career development and almost like climbing the teaching ladder, the equivalent to the corporate ladder, I think a lot of people feel that that's not in education and your example is a wonderful one of absolutely not. It's almost like there's so many different things that you can keep developing, growing and aspiring to, isn't there, if you want to do it?
Josephine:
Yeah, definitely, and there's not one day that I don't feel as though I've got an opportunity to learn something new and contribute to my community which is really important to me. The opportunities are there if you want them.
[A blue screen appears with text that reads: What are the biggest misconceptions in teaching?]
Gorgi:
Broady, take us through what you think the biggest misconception is about teaching when you're talking to other people that might not be so involved in the career?
Broady:
Yeah, I think the biggest misconception about teaching is about teenagers. I think there's this misconception that teenagers are difficult, challenging and hard to manage. And I think there's that typical stereotype associated with teenagers in general that they're just really challenging. I think that's the silliest idea ever. I love engaging in conversations where I'm describing what my students are like and they're like, "Well how are they like that?" And then I tell them, "If you understand people you'll understand students."
Gorgi:
I love that. Josephine, do you find that misconception is present when you're talking about dealing with teenagers and, "Oh, how do you deal with teenagers?" And, "They're hard work," and, "The youth of today..." Do you ever get any of that?
Josephine:
Definitely and I think particularly in a secondary school setting. I think when I tell a lot of people that I'm a teacher, first they assume that I'm a primary school teacher and then they move onto, "Well, that must actually be quite difficult." And I've got very similar beliefs to Broady that as teachers we work very much in a learning community with staff, students and parents. And it is very scientific the way we approach teaching. We constantly research evidence and refine our practice and investigate what may be going on, so that each of our students can get their maximum learning growth, whatever that looks like for them.
Gorgi:
Would you both say, maybe I'll start with you Broady to answer this, that you learn as much from the students as you teach them?
Broady:
Definitely. There's no other answer for that. There's so much that I've learnt from students. I'll give you one example. When I was doing my teacher rounds, I found out about this dance crew from Cranbourne... I'm from the southeast. And they came to the school that I was doing my teacher placement in, and I was just blown away by that dance crew. And I was lucky to be placed in the school where those students attended and those students knew who I was before I even set foot in that school. They were like, "Wow, you were that teacher that was obsessing over us." I know that sounds weird but I think that's part of the joy of teaching is when you see something great, you want to be able to get students to understand that what they have is truly great. And I think when students see that their teachers see them that way, they start believing in themselves and they start to think, "Wow, imagine what I can be if I continue to do this. If this is one adult thinking that I'm great at this, what else am I capable of?"
Broady:
And so, I ended up becoming their manager. Their parents found out about me and they were like, "We want you to manage our kids." And in the three years that I was their manager, we managed to win national competitions, first place. Won every single competition in Melbourne in 2011, went international. But I guess for me, the most important part of that entire experience was actually the journey, like watching them grow and watching them work really hard. Watching them helped me understand not just my impact on them but also helped me understand that if I really want to make a difference to the lives of these students and I'm making a difference with this group, then I've got to be just as hardworking as them.
Gorgi:
I love that. Josephine, what have your students taught you?
Josephine:
So much. I think it's really important that we acknowledge with our students that we are co-learners, and it ranges from things like content knowledge. So, they'll throw a curveball at me about some random scientific discovery and we'll go off and learn together and share our findings because science is constantly evolving. But they also just inspire me day to day in my leadership roles as well.
Gorgi:
I think one of the misconceptions is that nursing and teaching careers are really undervalued in society and the pandemic has definitely changed that. There is a much higher value placed now on teaching after everyone had to do homeschooling. They were like, "Whoa, I don't want to do this anymore. I might start with you Josephine, "do you feel valued? Do you feel like you're in a valued profession by the community?
Josephine:
Definitely, and I think like you said, the pandemic did really help because I think parents saw just how much we care about the students. But I do sometimes think there is that sort of undercurrent of, we've been through school, we know what you do, but I don't think they see the science behind it, that we are constantly learning, constantly researching and developing. Just like other professions, we are undertaking professional learning courses and working on our practise. But I do think that is shifting. I think just the highlights of some of my terms is just getting that thank you email from a parent or getting a thank you card. Or whenever I call a parent to share how great a student's gone throughout the term. They are really appreciative of the hard work that we put in and they do value that we genuinely care about their child.
Gorgi:
Oh yeah. I mean as a parent, Josephine, you guys make me cry all the time. When I talk to my daughters' teachers, I'm hopeless. I'm always welling up and have to pull myself together because we just value what you do every, single day. Broady, do you feel valued in your profession?
Broady:
I will speak for myself. I can't speak for teachers in general, but I certainly feel valued. And I think over the last six years I've been in working spaces where leadership have seen the potential in me and have given me opportunities to flourish. So, I think at a school level I certainly feel appreciated and valued. I think in terms of the community, I feel I'm valued and it's evidenced in that I'm constantly getting a lot of positive feedback and I think the whole idea of being valued really comes down to the connections and the relationships you build up there in the community.
Gorgi:
That's so lovely to hear. You guys are on the frontline, so that makes my heart full, that you guys feel valued because I can tell you you're so valued from a community's perspective, even if we don't always show it all the time.
[A blue screen appears with text that reads: Why should people consider a teaching career?]
Gorgi:
What would you say, Broady and Josephine, young people, hopefully old people, people in industry, all be listening to this, maybe even students that are doing their VCE, and considering teaching, what would you say to them to encourage them to think about it?
Broady:
It's more a question, "do you love people?" That would probably be my first question. Do you love people? Do you get along well with people? And I don't want this question to come out in the wrong way because it's not about being best friends or anything like that.
Broady:
I love people. So, I see that as an opportunity to harness as much of my knowledge and my understanding of pedagogies and good practice and implement that in an effective way in order to lift the achievement of all of my students because you really do have to love people.
Gorgi:
Josephine, what were your thoughts when you were listening to Broady? Could you relate to that? Like what would you say to someone wanting to go into teaching?
Josephine:
Yeah, I think I relate to everything Broady said and there were lots of points where I was like, "Yep, similar experiences as I went through" I think as much as I'd love to encourage everyone to go into teaching, I think it takes a special kind of person to be a great teacher. I think teaching is so much more than content knowledge. And I think if you're someone who loves being a part of a community and loves problem solving, but also someone that just loves learning and is intrinsically motivated, then it's going to be the most rewarding career that you can do. I don't think I've met a teacher that's not intrinsically motivated.
Gorgi:
When you think about what brings you joy about your teaching job? Is it the smiles on the kids' faces? Is it when you can see progress in a work that you're sitting at home at night in the quiet and you're reading a student's assessment and think, "Oh my goodness, I can see their growth. I can see the impact that I'm having." Are there any sort of words or memories that come to mind when you do reflect on the joy of teaching?
[Broady Kata, Secondary School Teacher]
Yeah, there's plenty, but I'll keep it really brief. I guess one of the things that I'm after and I've done this many times, I want to be able to at the end of a school year or even five years from when I taught a student, I want to be able to say to them, "I told you so." When I'm at a point where I can say to a kid, "I told you so," then I know that I've made a difference on that student. And I can't recall how many times that's happened. You'll see behind me is a painting of an ex-student of mine who ran his first exhibition last Friday.
Gorgi:
Wow.
Broady:
Yeah. And he ran his first exhibition and he's now the creative designer of a street brand that is making waves around the world. But I guess the idea behind that isn't so much how great the things they've gone and pursued. It's just that they've gotten to the point where they're different and they're changed and they're transformed. And whenever I say to students, "We're going to make you an A student by the end of the year," they think it's ridiculous. And a lot of kids think it's ridiculous. And to me, I think that's symptomatic of the world these young people are growing up in, very low self esteem, lack of confidence. But one of the things that I like to do is sort of embed aspiration within these students.
Gorgi:
Wow. I love it. So powerful, so passionate Broady. Josephine?
Josephine:
Yeah, I think my sort of one word that comes to mind and what sort of gives me joy is connectedness and I think that's what I strive for, not just in my classrooms but on a broader scale and what I hope to be able to influence as I sort of move up in schools. I think what brings me true joy is having students turn up at lunch time or before or after school just to go over something and seeing them finally get it and see their sense of self confidence jump up dramatically or seeing the students maths anxiety disappear or realising that science isn't the hard subject in school, it's actually so exciting and gives them that sense of curiosity.
Gorgi:
Well, they're such lucky students to have you Josephine and Broady. We really appreciate your chat with us today. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us and I know that a lot of people listening will be thinking, "Mm, okay, I might be considering a career in teaching now." Appreciate it. Thanks guys.
Broady:
Thank you.
Josephine:
Thank you, Gorgi.
Gorgi:
Well, that brings us to the end of today’s episode. Thanks so much for watching Subject Matters. I’m Gorgi Coghlan. For more information about teaching in Victoria, visit vic.gov.au/teachthefuture.
[End of transcript]
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