Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
Fantastic, and I'm going to pass this over to Jelena who is going to formally get proceedings started for us today. Thank you so much, Jelena.
Jelena Djurdjevic:
Wonderful. Thanks, Michelle. Good morning, everyone. I'd like to start off with an acknowledgement. So I live and work on Wurundjeri Country and would like to pay respect to Elders, past and present, and acknowledge that sovereignty of land and waters was never ceded, and also to extend respect to First Nations people in today's session as well. I also invite all of you to share in the chat which country you might be joining us from today as well. So I'm Jelena Djurdjevic. I'm the Executive Director of Sector Development Unit at Safe and Equal. Safe and Equal is the peak body for specialist family violence services that provides support to victim survivors in Victoria.
As the peak body, we lead, organise, advocate for, and act on behalf of our members, and we have a focus across the continuum from primary prevention through to response and recovery. As the peak body, we also honour the strength and resilience of adults, children, and young people who have or are experiencing family violence and really recognise it's essential that responses to family violence are informed by their experiences and advocacy.
Welcome, again, and thanks for joining the second Leading for Wellbeing Seminar for 2023. I do also want to note that there may be some challenging moments in today's session. So if, at any point, you do feel like you need a break, please feel free to turn off your cameras and do so, and you can also refer to the support numbers that will be available, my understanding, in the chat as well.
In terms of Safe and Equal, we recognise the important role that leaders can play in being proactive in the context of the work that we do both by implementing, but also having ongoing review and strengthening of the health and wellbeing strategies that we're putting in place. Our Code of Practise for Specialist Family Violence Services also outlines health and wellbeing as being a really critical organisational work and aspect of the work that we need to be undertaking. As a peak body, we continue to see the ongoing passion and commitment our member organisations have towards supporting their workforces.
We know there's lots of great work happening already, and people are doing the absolute best that they can in the context of the resourcing that they have, and the organisations as well. It's really fantastic to see so many people here today interested in exploring strategies and ideas for further improving and strengthening our wellbeing for their teams and workplaces. I understand that we, yeah, have had quite a big registration list. So, again, that's really, really fantastic to see.
As part of our work in supporting the sector in this space, Safe and Equal also published our online health, safety, and wellbeing self-assessment tool and a handbook in July last year. We have Christie from Safe and Equal in today's session as well, and I really just wanted to note Christie's work in developing that tool. You've done a great job, Christie, and it's absolutely fantastic to have it available to the sector.
To date, we've had over a thousand visits to our site in relation to that tool and 500 plus downloads of the self-assessment tool and handbook, which is really fantastic as well. We're looking forward to sharing more with you today about the tool, the reflective questions in there, and how teams can use these to support the assessment and minimization of any potential key hazards which will be explored later on today.
We all know this is a really critical time to be talking about the wellbeing needs of our workforces, particularly given everything that we've experienced in recent years. COVID came along and really had such a huge impact on our organisations and service delivery. Again, it was amazing to see what organisations put in place across that time period. I know people are looking to really, again, strengthen what's been happening and have a chance to move forward.
From my perspective as well, I've been in a lot of roles in my career, and one of them was working with colleagues really intensively in service delivery and supporting victim survivors. Often, when we think about wellbeing, absolutely, that's what's happening in the context of the workplaces, but also, in the context of the work, one of the things that we often reflected on was the impact of system failures and needing to have conversations about the impact of walking beside victim survivors, and despite our best advocacy efforts, seeing some of those system failures have an impact both on the people we're working with, but also ourselves day in and day out while we're undertaking that work. So I just wanted to share that too because I think that's an important lens to put on the work as well because we do see those systemic failures having a really big impact, too.
So today's session will build on learnings from both the health, safety, and wellbeing launch last year and the first Leading for Wellbeing Seminar that was held this past February. That's it for me at this stage. I'll hand back to Michelle from The Wellbeing Lab, and Michelle will be facilitating today's session. Thank you.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
Thank you so much, Jelena. It's such a pleasure and privilege to be with all of you again today. As Jelena mentioned, I'd just also like to add to her acknowledgement of country and acknowledge the traditional owners of the Kulin Nation on which I'm joining from today and to pay my respects to their Elders, past and present, and to extend that respect to any other Aboriginal People we have joining us today. It's such a wonderful pleasure and privilege to have you here with us.
So, today, we are going to continue building on some of the things we learned in our first seminar a month ago now, if you can believe that. If you weren't with us for that first seminar, we will share the recording of that out with these materials today to help you. To guide us, I'm going to share some slides on and off the screen today. Evie, if you can make sure we got me positioned next to the slides. For those of you who haven't yet met our wonderful Evie, Evie is there in the chat also to help guide you. If you're having any technical issues or problems, feel free to just message her. Evie Wright is the full name. Evie will be able to help you out there.
So let's dive into where we left off last time and where we're going forward to today. So when we were together last time, we were exploring how we can build safety plans, encourage collective responsibility in our teams, help set boundaries at a team level to care for health, safety, and wellbeing. As always, in these seminars, we drew on a lot of evidence-based ideas to help accelerate our understanding, and inspire and inform our practises, but also, to remember that each of our contexts is different. None of this when it comes to supporting health, safety, and wellbeing is ever one-size-fits-all, and so as it was in our first seminar, the invitation today is to take these ideas, and pull them apart, and figure out what's going to work best for you as a leader for your teams, for your organisation, for the people that you are supporting.
So, as we dive in, let's see what we can add into your toolkit. Today, we're really going to focus, just as Jelena pointed to so beautifully for us in her introduction, not just at the team level, but at the organisational level. What might be some of those organisational challenges we face around helping our people to care for health, safety, and wellbeing, and how can we influence those as leaders?
Now, some of that doesn't mean it's up to us as leaders to be doing all of the fixing, right? Organisations have some clear responsibilities around health, safety, and wellbeing that we as leaders need to make sure they are owning. So some of this for us is about upward feedback as leaders for our organisations where we can see risks to our people's health, safety, and wellbeing that have been created perhaps around strategies, goals, funding, other things that are organisational responsibility.
Other parts of it for us as leaders to then also help our people make the best use of those organisational systems that exist for health, safety, and wellbeing support, and at times, to provide some supervisory assistance to our team members around how then they are navigating what is expected and required of them. Often, honestly, honestly, particularly in the services that so many of us provide every day, it's helping them not over-give in that process because the work is so important and meaningful so that we stay, as we were talking about in seminar one, and Vicky Reynolds identifies in her work, in that zone of fabulousness that helps us avoid that risk of a measurement or at the other extreme, becoming more cynical and disconnected from the work that we're doing. So, as leaders, we definitely have a responsibility here to try and help use what our systems and workplaces are providing to support health, safety, and wellbeing, and then encourage our people to be making the most of those resources.
So, with that said, we thought we'd begin just by understanding a little bit more about what's going on around the psychosocial hazards that workplaces have a responsibility to care for, not least because there's been a lot of activity over the last 12 months in Australia in this area that it's important as leaders that we are up-to-date with. So, of course, the Victorian Occupational Health and Safety Act has always included responsibilities around psychosocial health and safety for our employees, and this includes both contractors and employees when it comes to how we need to be helping care not just for physical health, but for mental health as well.
One of the amazing things about getting to work with so many of you in this space, our coaches have been out with lots of you across your organisations over the years that The Wellbeing Lab has been involved, and we get to see over and over again how often as a sector you really have been leading already in practises that support the psychosocial health of your employees. So we would say you've already been doing so much of this is the good news and really setting a lot of examples, best practises of how others can respond. So, to some degree, there's no change here. We've already been doing this. What's happening over the last 12 months is more clarity is being provided by governments around Australia and Safe Work Australia around some of these expectations so that workplaces know, "Are we really achieving and meeting our responsibilities here or not?"
So, on the 17th of May in 2022, the Victorian government committed to amend the OH&S Act to more clearly address psychological hazards and injuries, and to seek stakeholder feedback on that. So quite a big process of stakeholder consultation was run that closed out later last year. Currently, this is under review for decisions to be made as to whether there will be legislative updates or not in the state of Victoria specific to psychosocial hazards.
The other thing that occurred though last year is around early August, late July, Safe Work Australia updated the model code of practise for work health and safety. In particular, they added a code around managing psychosocial hazards at work. Now, Victoria doesn't... Actually, we're the only state that doesn't follow that code. Every other state does. Victoria always had a view that our local laws have been ahead of whatever was in that national code, and so we've always gone our own way here, but it is one of the other reasons that lots of commentary started surfacing last year because Victoria was looking at its legislation, the code was being reviewed nationally, and since that code, almost every other state of Australia has now introduced specific legislation around these psychosocial hazards, and the responsibility primarily, again, sits at the organisational level or the person conducting the business is often the way it's legally framed. This means your board, if you have a board, or otherwise, the owners of your workplace if you are set up in that model. The owners and the board will be held accountable if psychosocial risks are not being assessed regularly, are not doing everything reasonably practical to eliminate or minimise those psychosocial risks as people go about their jobs.
So why all this noise? Why all these changes over the last 12 months? Part of it, of course, is coming off the back of the global pandemic. It definitely, I think, heightened sensitivity around how we care for our workers' mental health, but also, between 2014 and 2018 in Australia, we saw the number of psychological injury claims increasing significantly. So, in that time, there was an increase of 53% for psychological injuries compared to 3.5% for physical injuries. So that's a fairly big shift.
The other thing that we were finding is that the average cost of a psychological injury was about $85,000 in Australia and typically required about 75 days for somebody off work compared to a physical injury where the average cost in 2018 was $21,000, and it was requiring 44 days off work. So the governments around our country have been looking at this data for a while going, "Something here is needing to be addressed. We need to be more proactive and not just letting this accumulation of psychosocial risk be occurring in our workplaces."
We also, right now, of course, have a number of interesting incidences, cases that have been through court or are going to court asking for more responsibility to be placed on employers around our mental safety and health at work. So, recently, the High Court of Australia awarded a six-figure payment to reaffirm every employer's duty of care around the cumulative exposure of vicarious trauma. So it's important to be aware this has now been tested in court. It was a significant payment. It's the first of its kind where these laws were taken through the judicial system.
Of course, if you've been reading the news, you'll be aware of the court case going on between Sally Rugg and Monique Ryan who are testing what is unachievable job demands and what are the costs of those things. We have a junior doctor case that's been brought in Victoria, New South Wales, and the ACT as a class action at the moment where they are suing health services around unpaid overtime, excessive hours, and dangerous rostering that's working through the legal system. Then, just recently, the Senate Committee on Work and Care federally submitted final recommendations around how we make our workplaces safer for our wellbeing.
Within those recommendations were inclusions on things such as a four-day work week and the right to disconnect after hours which, of course, has already become law in countries like France and Spain. So there is a lot happening in this space right now, and I think it's reasonable as leaders that we anticipate. This will continue to be the case for the next one to two years, while better clarity around the responsibilities of organisations for the mental health and wellbeing of workers is resolved and accountability starts to be taken.
So, we're curious. As we get started today, we thought we'd just invite you to complete a quick confidential poll, nobody can check this at all for you, just to see what's happening in your workplace. Again, no judgement here. This is not law in Victoria at the moment, outside of what has already existed in the OH&S Act for some time. So we know some workplaces seeing these changes coming have been very active over the last six months, letting leaders know what's happening, starting to prepare you for some of these responsibilities. Other workplaces haven't done things yet, but we're talking about it, waiting to see what might happen around Victorian legislation, and others are not there yet. We're sitting back. Nothing changed from what we already do. We feel we're proactive on this and covered. So, again, no judgement for wherever you are, but we thought it's helpful as leaders in the sector to just get a sense what is going on across workplaces here and where are we at within our own organisation.
So I can see we've got about 71% of you have responded to that poll. I'm going to leave it just for a few more seconds while I grab a sip of water. Let's see if we can get that percentage up a little bit higher. So, again, this poll is completely confidential. We do not map who's saying what to anything. It's really just for us in this conversation to get a bit of a temperature gauge as to what's going on in workplaces around this. Okay. Last 10 seconds, and then I'm going to close that poll if you haven't already responded. All right. Let's see where those results are sitting.
So what we can see there is almost 20%, 19% have been provided with training and support in the last six months. We can see 41% of you haven't, but it's under discussion, so a not-yet kind of approach. We can see about 40% of you haven't, and there aren't current plans to do so. Again, that's okay. We're figuring out what does all this mean for Victorian workplaces still, but it gives you a bit of a sense perhaps that if you're in that, "No, I haven't," and there aren't current plans to do so, maybe worth just checking in that that's an intentional choice, "We're waiting to see what will happen on legislation or the like," or, "Actually, yeah, geez, we weren't quite across all these things that are going on. Perhaps we would like to know a little bit more of what's happening." So, again, what's right for your workplace here is what matters most.
So what are these hazards, and what does it mean for us practically as leaders? The Safe Work Australian Model Code has identified on average about 13. It depends whether there's 12 or 13, whether you count a few of them like bullying and harassment as one hazard or split them out, but the Safe Work Code document, which we did send out as part of the pre-read, and we can send out again today, identifies a list of hazards that they recommend workplaces and leaders are considering around psychosocial risks. The difference here is that a hazard is the... It exists. It just is what it is, and the risk is indicating how much exposure our people had to that hazard as to the degree of risk, and our responsibility is to try to do everything reasonably practical to minimise or eliminate the risks. That's true even in the existing OH&S legislation in Victoria.
So, because there are a lot of hazards, we find it helpful at The Wellbeing Lab to group these into four general areas to help us as leaders think about where there might be risk for our people. The first area is a set of work design hazards, and these are things like role clarity and achievable job demands, low job control, inadequate reward, and recognition. So the things that help us construct our people's jobs. The second group of hazards are around social support. So the way we interact with each other as we're going about our jobs such as lack of supervisor support, poor workplace relationships, bullying, and harassment.
The third set of hazards are around the conditions that we experience at work. Things like poor change management, poor physical work environments, remote and isolated work. "So am I finishing work late at odd hours? Am I out on the road a lot, visiting clients, or things like that?" Definitely going to trigger that remote or isolated work hazard. Then, the fourth group are around the experiences that we might have at work. So poor organisational justice, violent and aggressive behaviours, and exposure to traumatic events.
We'll send this out as a little poster. If it's helpful to pop up for yourself or your team in your work area, you're more than welcome to, but we find a part of this is even just starting to have the language of what are these hazards? As leaders, we should be aware of what these hazards are at the very least, and then starting to be able to spot where our people may be experiencing these risks as they're going about their jobs. Again, not necessarily for us to always solve as leaders. Sometimes we have a risk to identify and report up so our organisation who has ultimate responsibility can take the actions they need. Other times, with supervisors, it may be that perhaps with some conversation and connection for our people to existing organisational resources, we can try and help them navigate and minimise or eliminate that risk that they're experiencing.
So, again, we're curious as to what might be some of the biggest hazards that your workers are experiencing, and I'm going to launch one final confidential poll for us today. Again, nobody can track this, so feel free to just give us what you need to share, and you can add some multiple times to this. So we've put 10 of the most frequent hazards just because Zoom limits 10 on the poll. Therefore, you, and so you can click multiple options there on the poll that's just been launched on your screen, but what are the biggest psychosocial risks that currently are being experienced in your workplace? The way that the legislation measures the risk is around the frequency of experience, how often are people being exposed to it, and the impact it's having on their wellbeing. How big an impact is this having? So if you can look at these two items, and again, I'm going to grab some water while we get those in. I can see we've got about 40% of people and quickly growing. So let me give you a moment.
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Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
...40% of people are quickly growing, so let me give you a moment to take that in. It's a great way for us as a sector and to support each other to perhaps understand the risks we need to be mindful of for our people. So please know your input here is not wasted. Think this is a really valuable way to help guide each other as leaders as to where we need to stay mindful.
I'm going to give you just a few more seconds. I can see we're almost at 80%. That's amazing. Fantastic. Okay. I can see a few numbers still coming in there, so I'll give it a few more seconds there. Awesome. 87%. That's amazing. Okay, I'm going to end this call so we can see some results here on the screen. Let me try and share those results and see. Evie, maybe you can give me a thumb, see that's on the screen. Yay. So here we go. So we can see lack of role clarity there at 35%, unachievable job demands at 49%, low job control, inadequate reward and recognition at 24%, lack of supervisor support at 27%. That's a lot of honesty. Sometimes it's hard as leaders to admit that lack of supervisor support is a hazard our people are facing. Poor workplace relationships, 20%, poor change management, 35%, poor organisational justice, 13%, violent and traumatic events, I think not surprisingly, given the work your people do 34% and remote or isolated work, 23%.
So just as a glance there, we can see perhaps some of the biggest hazard I don't think is surprising around unachievable job demands. But good news is we're going to give you some very practical ways that you can try and help reduce and minimise that hazard for your people and in your workplace today. And then we can see second coming in, lack of role clarity and poor change management. And then just behind that by a whole percent, violent and traumatic events coming in there as well. Thank you so much. That's so helpful and I know the team from DFAT will also help look at those results to think about the support that they're providing.
We did ask a thousand Australian workers in September, 2022, what were the most frequently experienced psychosocial hazards for workers who were reporting that they were feeling burnt out at work often. And again, some of this not surprising to things that you were also identifying. Core change management being the number one hazard. That was your tied number two. We can also see inadequate reward and recognition coming up for a lot of workers. And then we can see lack of supervisor support. And again, I think it's hard when we ask a group of leaders to really be objective about, "Are we doing enough on supervisor support?," When we're part of the supervisors? So I'm impressed with the honesty that was in your poll around that, but it's definitely one for us to keep checking in and we are going to speak a bit more to that as well today.
And then unachievable job demands, you can see for many isn't as challenging as what you experience in the sector. And as we've talked about in seminar one and other conversations, of course, there are a number of factors for you as a sector, not least intermittent funding, the overwhelming and importance of the work that you're doing that isn't containable to nine to five working hours often. And then the amount of reporting and responsibilities, the duty of care you have around all of that, that makes unachievable job demands. Most often when we talk to people across the sector, the number one hazard that workplaces are experiencing. So if that was high for you, you'll certainly be in good company.
The thing just I'll leave you with as a last thought here as we wrap our head around, what are these psychosocial hazards and risks, is just to know in a nutshell, I like to think of it a bit like a seesaw. These psychosocial hazards and the risks that come with them, are multiplied when the demands of our work on one side of the seesaw, outbalance the resources we've got to do our work. So risk gradually increases as the demands go up and the resources we feel are available to us come down. And then the risks tend to decrease as the resources available to us equalise out and help balance the demands that we face.
So if nothing else, just because there is a lot of legal jargon, often when you start diving into the model code and the legislation and materials on this, if I was to bring it back in the simplest form that you can talk to your teams about this, and the way that I talk to my team about it as a leader is just how is our seesaw doing here between the jog demands on one side and the resources to do it on the other. What does this look like for us today? Are we getting that balance right? And if we're not, what are the hazards that we might need to address proactively? Again, being clear that responsibility is at the us level of our systems, the organisational level a little bit at the we level for us as leaders and teams to see, is there things practically that we can quickly do.
But more importantly for us as leaders, are we talking about it? Are we reporting up about what's needed? And then not really at all at the me level. The psychosocial risk to Jelena's point at the beginning is not a self-care responsibility. We talked in seminar one that burnout is not a problem in people's minds. It's not an issue with their resilience. It is a systems issue. And most often it is a systems issue because the resources and demands are out of balance with each other. So on that note, let's get real world about this. What can you actually do practically in your workplaces? And I think the best way to learn about that is to talk to people who are doing it in the context that you are in every day.
I'm so honoured to be able to introduce you to the wonderful Colleen Crispe who's going to join and share some of the experience of the Junction Support Services team for us around unachievable job demands. So Colleen's the service manager for the family and children's specialist support team and Junction Support Services have their head office in Wodonga and they have people situated in Wangaratta and Shepparton as well. So they cover the Murray and Goulburn area of Victoria and her team provide counselling for adults, for children and adolescents who are victims, survivors of family violence. They provide case management support to families referring to them via The Orange Door. And they provide early help programmes and homelessness support. Colleen, thank you so much for joining us today.
Colleen Crispe:
Thank you.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
Colleen, I know as we saw in that poll that for many leaders on this call, unachievable job demands is the biggest psychosocial risk that we are trying to help our teams navigate. And so I know at Junction Support, because you've been part of the wellbeing pilots that we've been running across the sector, you have come up with some very interesting ways to try and help balance people's job demands and the job resources to keep that seesaw a little more even. And the first of that, I was so impressed when we were chatting recently about the questions that you ask your people that cost nothing and that can be shared with everybody. Anybody on this call could steal them with pride and use them later today and the impact those questions have. Can you start by just sharing what are the questions and why do you and the team find them so powerful to help with unachievable job demands?
Colleen Crispe:
It really does sound like a simple question, but it is as simple as, what would make your role easier. And the point of that question is if people are coming to us with concerns saying, "I can't do this." "Well, what is it that would make it easier?" And something that was identified for our organisation that was across the board, no matter what programme they worked in, was IT and admin. And we asked more specifically, "Well, what is it about IT that we can improve to make your job easier? And what is it about the admin that will make it easier?" And we got back honest and doable answers. IT, I was really pleased to see that there were so many people regionally in this forum because regional people do experience different obstacles than our city counterparts. We have to travel a good two hours sometimes to see a client. And that really impacts on our admin time.
So as simple as having a laptop that they can take with them. So if they're in between seeing clients, they can get their notes done and it's there. It's not about then having to transfer it to something else. So it's little things like that. So Junction, in the last six to 12 months, have really been working on our IT. And that also extends to, because we go into remote areas, sometimes phones don't work, is a dongle better or can we approach the school that we're at or the community centre that we're at and feed into their wifi, if that's possible? And regional communities are always so open to things like that. And then from the admin perspective, because as leaders we use different admin tools, we use different tools to our workforce, what can they tell us? What are the ones that are working well? What are the ones that they, they're feeling and are a double up?
So at the moment, Junction are hoping and in the process of consolidating the feedback that we've had from our workforce about what they feel is a double-up in the admin that they're doing and making a more streamlined admin approach. So we're at the early stages of that one. And then again, the next question is about resources. "Well, what resources don't you have that would again, make your job easier?" And yes, I will be the first one to say we can't always say yes to those because we don't always have the budget for that, but it is still prioritising that and seeing what ones are doable and what ones aren't.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
I think that's so important, Colleen, because I think often as leaders we are scared to ask questions like, "What would make your role easier?," Because of the answers that might come back and then feeling we won't be able to address so much of that. And so then does that leave our people feeling more disappointed and unsupported than before we'd asked the question? Can you talk a little bit how do you navigate that? Because again, often we can't always afford to address some of the changes our workers might want.
Colleen Crispe:
Well, one unique way that we have is if someone's come up with something that is very outside the box, we do actually have a form that we really want to hear their idea and we don't necessarily have the answer to. They come to us with a problem. We mightn't have the answer to that, but we want them to also explore, what's the solution to this. So we actually have a document that we will give them and we get them to highlight, "What are the challenges that you're having and what do you see as some of the possible solutions?" Because again, we do want to be solution-focused, but we also want them to think about, "You're coming to us with this issue, how can you also solve it?" So being the proactive in that and also it's that joint work that we are listening, we do want to help you, but we don't have all the ideas. We need you to come with the ideas as well.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
I think that's so important. And I think it's the working together. We are not putting that responsibility back on the worker to say, "Well, you fix it," but we're asking for the co-creation, the co-designing of solutions so that then if we need to go to the organisation budget or things like that for it, we know that there's actually shared buy-in for the solution versus putting something in that then nobody's really going to use, and I know you are navigating that right now around the use of physical space in the organisation. Is that correct?
Colleen Crispe:
Yes. Junction have been quite successful in some tenders over the last 12 months. So we've grown as an organisation and that's really impacted on the space that we have, the physical space for our actual workers to sit. And it's something that's come up in conversation. So we have been navigating with them, "Well, what would you find helpful? What would work for you?" And we want any space that's external to us, to the main space, to feel like a workable solution for them to still feel part of the bigger picture and for that to feel a welcoming space as well. And then they're not just being shoved somewhere.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
I think that's so important that we're doing it with them rather than doing it to them. And so I think, again, there's that piece of co-design. We're not saying, "It's your job as workers to fix it, but we want this to be fit for purpose for you. We want to help provide those resources so that the job demands are more achievable, so help inform how we are going to do that with you where possible." And my experience as a leader, Colleen, is that even when we have to go back to workers to say, "We love that idea, there's just not the money for it right now," or, "We think that's an amazing possibility. The timing for it perhaps isn't right for right now, but let's put it here and not forget it so that we can come back to this. We're happy to keep revisiting."
It's that because we have the privilege and pleasure of working with grown adults, most people, 99% of the time, in my experience understand, that what matters to them is that they're being heard about the ask and that they feel like, as both supervisors and an organisation, we are respectful and in that with them and we're trying to figure out what we can do within the limitations that we all face. But does that ring true for your experience at Junction?
Colleen Crispe:
Very much so. It is that they feel like they're being heard, and I think a lot of people might go, "Oh, the documentation," they might kind of turn their nose up at that. It's actually the opposite because, "Here's something that I've given you." They have a record of that too. So if anything comes up, it's like, actually, "Yes, I have been heard and here's how I was heard."
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
Amazing. I know there are a couple of other things that you've found particularly helpful as a leader to try and help balance the unachievable job demands. Can you share us a final few tips for us? Other things that leaders might consider today?
Colleen Crispe:
Yeah, it's really interesting that one of the responses on the surveys that you were doing was about supervision, but we are a huge believer in supervision here and not just the supervision between the team leader and the workforce. We're very, very vocal advocates for peer support, so that peer supervision. So that is something that is built in that is rostered, that is a monthly thing that our workforce get a lot of value out of. Because again, sometimes it's a group, they come up with those ideas. So that form could be filled out as a group, but it also gives them that time to reflect on the work. And if they're not having any positives, maybe one of their colleagues are, and they can share that. If they're struggling with something, they can share that. But again, it's for the positives and the negatives.
The other thing that we really value at Junction is training. And it's really interesting because I know lots of organisations are really great at it, and a lot of workers tend to put it off because, "Oh, I don't have the time for that. It's going to eat away at my actual work." But it's something that we really push here because the training does make the job easier. It's upskilling you, it's giving you more resources, it's things to go back on. You're learning lots. And again, with that peer support, after someone's done training, they also can take that back and share that with their colleagues. So it's really important to encourage that that ethos of training is valuable to everyone.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
I completely agree. And I think it's also a really great way to address one of those other hazards around inadequate reward and recognition. There's a lot of R's in that as well. And so I think it's a really important point that often these hazards don't exist in isolation. You've just talked there around supervision. So that lack of supervision is another hazard. Inadequate reward and recognition, think I nailed it that time, is another one. And so what you're identifying there is how these hazards can actually interplay with each other. It's pretty rare in our experience that there's one hazard in isolation happening. There's often a few impacting each other. Colleen, thank you so much for your time and those tips. Team, if you're listening and you want to put a little appreciation for Colleen into the chat, I know that that would be such helpful feedback for Colleen. It's a bit nerve wracking getting on here with all of you to have these conversations. So Colleen, thank you for paying forward your learning.
Colleen Crispe:
Thank you.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
My pleasure.
So here are some very practical, real world, happening now ideas around balancing that seesaw for the unachievable job demands and a few of our other hazards in there as well. What else exists? The good news is that the health safety and wellbeing guide for the sector actually comes with tools to make both the identifying and minimising of psychosocial risks much easier. And to help us dive into that, so you're aware of exactly what you already have at your fingertips and how to use it easily, we have Kristy Loots joining us from the Safe and Equal team. Kristy, welcome. It's so good to have you with us today.
Kristy Loots:
Thank you so much for having me.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
We're very pleased, despite internet challenges in the [inaudible 00:42:04] you're here, and we're going to hear you and you're right where you need to be. So Kristy, you spent so much time, as Jelena mentioned, along with many of your colleagues and people from the sector, creating a self-assessment guide that again, ahead of the time, because this was a couple of years ago even. And then you've updated it as the legislation and model codes and things like that have been discussed. So for those though who may not be aware that the self-assessment guide exists for health, safety and wellbeing, can you help us understand what is the health safety and assessment tool?
Kristy Loots:
Absolutely. Thanks, Michelle. Our health, safety and wellbeing self-assessment tool was developed for the family violence and the sexual assault response sectors to complete a bit of a self-ordered activity in regards to wellbeing in their workforce and try to just identify a starting point for improving wellbeing of their staff. Many of you will likely find that you've already got some great practises or procedures in place to support workers, but no data as well. If you're going through any kind of self-assessment activity in this space, you'll find some areas where you can further improve or grow wellbeing in your workplace. This tool was created with the idea that it'll help organisations to do both. I doubt that anybody would work through the tool and find that they hadn't already completed some sections of it.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
It's amazing. Having been through it, and again, because we get to work in lots of different sectors, it's rare that we've found something both comprehensive and simple to use in terms of the assessment questions and things like that.
Kristy Loots:
Oh, good. Similar to in alignment with the code of practise, the tool really emphasises that the responsibility of health, safety and wellbeing sits at an organisational and a leadership level, rather than at an individual level. So absolutely you'll find with using the tool, there is some questions that relate to individual staff, but mostly you'll find it's all about what can the organisation do and what can the leadership deans do to improve wellbeing. When we initially developed the tool, it actually started a few years ago and the work was led by an external consultant, Dean Walker, and it was done so in consultation with sector representatives. So including at the time DVV and DVRCV. At the beginning of last year, 2022, obviously there'd been a lot of changes in the world and so Safe and Equal picked the tool back up and revised it, just to ensure that it reflected the changes in the evidence regarding work health and safety.
So such as the introduction of the psychosocial hazards we've been talking about this morning, and also changes in our surrounding environment that we're working within. So we know COVID had a huge impact on our work, the Victorian bushfires. So a lot had happened in a small space of time and it needed a little bit of a rejig. So we were able to do that and then release it in July, as Jelena mentioned earlier today, and we know it's been used by some of the programmes in the health safety and wellbeing pilot programme currently underway. However, it's still really new, so it hasn't been formally tested yet, hasn't had any formal evaluations. So we've been really excited to have this opportunity to see how it goes.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
I think Jelena was saying you've had more than a thousand people download the tools. So although you haven't gone through the formal reliability and validity testing of it, it's not that it's not being used right now, which is fantastic to see across the sector. I know often when people take the assessment, the question then is yes, and what do I do about it? So actually my favourite part of the tool isn't even the assessment part, it's the handbook that you created that comes with it. Can you just help everybody understand, what is the handbook? Because I think even if you're not using the assessment formally, the handbook has lots of great stuff for us as leaders to even begin to think about if I'm identifying a potential hazard in my team, how do I talk to my team about that or understand more about what's happening and how I might ask my organisation to respond?
Kristy Loots:
Yeah, absolutely. There's two...
PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:46:04]
Kristy Loots:
Yeah. Absolutely. So there's two parts there. They've got the tool sits separate. It's not a checklist format. And then we have the handbook. When using the tool, the best way to use it is the way that it works for your organisation. We know, and consultation tells us over and over, different organisations have different resources at different time that they can allocate to this. But it is important, and everybody does want to make it a priority. So for some people, they might look at the tool and feel that they can complete it. They have a lot of existing data, which is great. But for other people, they might feel they need to get some conversation started in the workplace. They might be earlier in their journey than others. And that's where the handbook hopefully can be handy. So it includes... There's a little snapshot in the slide there that you can see.
It includes some of the evidence base that was used to inform the development of the tool. And guide some understanding as to why we think prioritising the wellbeing of our workplace is important, and needs to be prioritised. And you can see in there as well, it does include some targeted long-term outcomes associated with prioritising wellbeing as well. It also includes a set of reflective question activities that can guide discussions in the workplace to support responding to some of the questions in the tool. Again on the slide, there's a little snapshot. You might be able to see what that looks like. But I think we're going to have time in a moment, to delve into that a little bit more.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
Yeah. Absolutely. So let's do that, Kristy. Let's talk about one of these. And I think one of the things that can feel a little overwhelming we find sometimes when people start with the tool is, there are so many hazards to be thinking about how we're going to respond. And increasingly, particularly with the coaches we've had working with people in the sector being like, let's just pick what's most important right now. Let's just start with one. And let's assess that, and think about how we're responding to that. And then let's choose the next one down the track. So I think it's super important that tackling it all from start to finish could definitely feel overwhelming, unless you're resourced to be able to do so.
But we saw in the poll earlier, and we anticipated this also based on what we'd seen in Australian workplaces and what we know of the sector, that poor change management might be one of the hazards that many of us are struggling. And so we thought to help everybody on the call today already get a little bit ahead of the game, we could help you both assess and reflect on what you're doing around change management for your team as leaders. What your organization's doing to support change management across your workplace. And so Kristy, do you want to talk us through? So these are assessment questions taken straight out of the tool.
Kristy Loots:
Yeah. Absolutely. So if we're thinking about poor change management, in our workplace that might look like changes not really being consulted prior to making them. Not thinking about how change might impact workers' performance. Maybe not anticipating training needs that might have needed to occur, to support the change to happen smoothly. Or not communicating details of the change as well. And sometimes we don't have control over the time we need to implement a change in, but we want to have procedures in place that help us do that as best as it can.
So as Michelle mentioned on the slide, here's some examples of questions that might help you to identify if change management scenario that can be improved in your workplace. Oh, just give you a quick minute to look through it. Don't need to hear my voice for that.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
And Kristy as people are looking through it, it's really that yes or no. Do we have something like... Do our leadership team effectively communicate organisational change? It's a gut feel. We feel like we know what's going on. The other piece I really like in the assessment tool is, okay. Do we adhere to it? Do we do it regularly? And what are those comments? The reflection on it. So perhaps as people are just reading through those assessment questions... And you might even want to grab a pen and paper for yourself right now, to reflect on just the yes or the no.
Do we do each of these things? If poor change management in particular was one of the hazards you identified for your team earlier in the poll, really important. And even if it wasn't, perhaps there's some bits of this we're doing better than others. And that's what I think's so helpful too in the self-assessment tool questions Kristy, to go, yeah. Okay. We're nailing that, but maybe we could do with a bit of improvement on this. Or we used to do that really well, but things got busy lately. Or we had some changes in our leadership team, and we're probably not as consistent on that as we were. Does that sound right, as we're thinking about ways to assess these items?
Kristy Loots:
Yeah. Absolutely. So the adhere to column was really to prompt us to have a bit more conversation. Because it's quite easy when we're doing checklist format, to zoom through just yes or no. But it might be written down somewhere, are we still doing it exactly right? What's the context around that answer? And comments are really just a space to be able to pop in some points for what you might want to think about then, if you're developing an action plan post this tool.
So when you're looking at the tool, just to try and really bring it to life, you might look at the first question. Do leadership teams effectively communicate organisational change? And maybe that's a really simple yes. You've had wonderful feedback in an employee survey recently, that shows all staff are really happy. They feel really informed about the changes. There's so much training that occurs. Just nailing it. But maybe it's an area where you realise, you've had some feedback. Maybe things aren't quite there. Or even, really not sure where the organisation is up to at the moment. And so that might be when you realise you want to get some people within your workplace together, to use those reflective questions to explore it further.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
And so then, we've done the assessment. And I think again Kristy, the tool I've found with teams... Sometimes I'll just do it with a leader, in a leader coaching conversation about just, where are you at with your team on this? And again, what do we need to ask up for? And what might we need to do better as leaders immediately for our own team is helpful? And then also, getting a group of leaders together. So a cohort of leaders go well, let's all answer this and compare our answers to see what a mix is. And other times, sometimes I've worked with leaders who've used this with their team to go... Again, if there's reasonable levels of safety and trust in the team, so that team can feel they're not going to be penalised or punished in any way for their answers. To just even, how are we doing?
And it doesn't have to be a score, or a flat yes or no. But even just, let's talk about this. How's it working? So I think using these questions as a way to open up conversations is so important. And then the handbook also has some great reflective questions as you pointed out before for each of the hazard areas to help us figure out well, what do we do about that? So can you talk us through for change management, if people are looking at their own little pen and paper list right now. And there are perhaps a few more nos or not adhered to's then we'd like, what do we do next?
Kristy Loots:
Yes. So here is some examples of some of the reflective questions you'd find in the handbook. How did your organisation communicate with your workforce about changes and reforms occurring? How do we monitor the impacts of that? And how does your organisation distribute power, and involve the workforce in making the changes as meaningful and positive as possible? So exactly right. It's not about scoring, it's not about saying anybody's failing or doing it perfectly. It's just, where are we at? And what can we do differently?
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
And so Kristy again, I would imagine some of those questions aren't going to be solved straight away. There might be some, let's think about this. And again, when I've worked with leaders using the handbook, it's been, okay. Well, let's just open this up for a chat. And let's talk about... And again, it's almost back to where Colleen left us with, what would make your role easier around this? What would make it easier about how we are communicating about changes and reforms? What resources might help around communication? Is there a regular huddle for change that's going on? Or is there a standard piece in regular updates we're sending out that's always going to be change management, so we can let you know whatever changes are happening? Or are there other things that we need? And so again, I think in the model code from Safe Work Australia, the draught even of the legislation in Victoria. What's been approved in other states, it's very clear that we need to involve our people as part of these conversations again. So we're doing it with them rather than to them, as Colleen pointed out.
Is that your suggestion? I know sometimes other well-resourced organisations may simply pass this over to an OH&S committee, or a safety and wellbeing committee. And that can also work. How do we answer these questions, and then implement the answers off the other side?
Kristy Loots:
Absolutely, Michelle. So the best way that works for the organisation, I think I would probably suggest. So we've heard examples where there's been the resourcing that there is a wellbeing coordinator already within the workplace. That they might already be on top of some of this work, and they can really lead it. But by other organisations, they might decide they have a representative from each team or across sites to get together and have these discussions. And then when needed, break that down and have those discussions in teams. And so I think, your resourcing will dictate how that happens a little bit.
And also the existing culture of the team, and what sort of discussions are already comfortable for people.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
And I think the other one is, you might have a process in place already. And so you're slotting this in within that, rather than adding it as another thing on the never ending to-do list for us.
Kristy Loots:
Absolutely.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
What about that though Kristy, because this is never a tick n flick exercise. Because, these psychosocial hazards are dynamic. They keep changing as our workplaces keep changing, and the world around us keeps changing. I think the global pandemic made that very acute for all of us to see. They can be somewhat subjective. What feels safe for one team, may not feel safe for another team. Or what feels like a good balance of resources and job demands might work beautifully in one team. But another team that's got the same set of job demands and resources, for them it may feel unbalanced. Because, part of this is how we process things ourselves as well. So any suggestions or based on what you're seeing, how do organisations keep this conversation alive I guess? Rather than thinking oh, yeah. We talked about change management six months ago. We're all good on that. We can just keep moving forward.
Kristy Loots:
I think what you mentioned before, Michelle can be helpful. Implementing it into a process that already exists. If there is regular team meetings that already exist, you can make this a part of the agenda almost. But for a working group or a coordinator that's leading this work, it'd be great to set a date that you would be coming back to monitor how things are going, and how the conversations are happening.
So exactly right. Whether that was shorter amounts of time. Bi-quarterly, six-monthly, annually. If there's already continuous improvement processes in place that this can be slotted into, obviously that's really helpful to make sure that it stays live.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
Yeah. So I think that again, you're identifying for us that organisation responsibility and rhythm to keep an eye on what's going on here. And then perhaps more our day-to-day leadership responsibility of just keeping our eyes and ears open, as to where people might be finding that imbalance. And which hazards might be impacting that and raising that up either to that committee or the people that have responsibility to say, hey. In my team, this is becoming an issue. What are we doing?
And perhaps again, those assessment questions or reflective questions can be helpful for us even as leaders as you pointed out and Colleen mentioned, just to have conversations in our team. Hey, what's happening here? How are we going? I've noticed... Which parts of this? What do we need as a team? Whilst we're also flagging what our organisation needs to take responsibility for? Does that sound right? Because, I'm conscious we've got lots of leaders on the call today, who won't necessarily have that occupational health and safety responsibility. But I think it's important as leaders, we don't then go oh, well that's not our problem. Somebody else is taking care of it. Is that right?
Kristy Loots:
Yeah. Absolutely. That's right. Leaders have the connection with the teams and with the people. So they're the ears on the ground, and also can be the voice as well.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
Fantastic. Well, Kristy thank you so much for taking us through change management. Again, we've been putting the link for the tool and the handbook are all there in the chat. And [inaudible 00:58:50], if we can pop that again right now, in case people are missing it in all the beautiful comments that are threading up.
If you've used the tool or reflective practise and you want to add any of your experience, good, bad, and everything in between's okay. I think Kristy's safe and equal... As you've pointed out, we're all learning in this as to how to do it better. And so, all feedback is welcome.
So if you've used the tool or parts of the tool at all, be great to share how that's working for you. Or if you have specific questions about the tool, I know Kristy, you'll be hanging out there in the chat for the next 30 minutes and keeping an eye in case people have anything they want to ask you specifically. Does that sound okay, mate?
Kristy Loots:
Absolutely. Thanks so much, Michelle.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
That would be wonderful. Thank you, Kristy. So before we wrap out this practical part of our conversation, we wanted to provide one more real world example from one of your peers around, what about that lack of supervisors support? Again we saw overall for Australian workers, it's often one of the most challenging psychosocial risks they're facing. We saw beautiful honesty amongst you around even here, yes. Definitely, there is some lack of supervisor support. Perhaps that's for yourself, or it's more broadly across your workplace. Either is fine.
And so to help us think again as leaders, how do we help minimise or eliminate this psychosocial risk? Joining us now is Lisa Robinson, who is the executive manager that sits over access support and family safety at Bethany Community Support. Lisa and her team's work encompasses women and children, family violence services. Perpetrator services, and the Orange Door Family Violence Child and Family Area.
And Lisa also coaches the risk assessment panel. And she's been at Bethany Community Support for 16 years, and managing family violence programmes for 13 of those years. So Lisa, most importantly, thank you for your service in our communities. And welcome. Thank you for sharing your learning with us today.
Lisa:
Thanks for having me, Michelle.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
It's wonderful to have you here. So I know that providing enough supervisor support can feel like an ongoing challenge for lots of us. It feels like no matter how much we give, it never feels like it's enough sometimes for what our teams tell us they're really needing. And we've seen in that research that often, it's hard to keep that seesaw balanced. So how do you close that safety gap at Bethany? I know you've found reflective practises can be a really important tool. How do you make that work for you?
Lisa:
Yeah. So reflective practise is an important tool. But it's an important tool because it's really driven by the team, and what they require. So it's not... Sometimes reflective practise can just be about the cases, or those sorts of things. But we really open it to being about wellbeing, how they're travelling. Challenges, frustration and fatigue. So we really bring that into that space. And we give the team the opportunity to do this work. And we place importance around it. At the minute it could be monthly, or as needed. Really driven by what the team is looking for, and what they would like around it. We also... As part of that process, if they identify something... Not that long ago, our women's team really wanted to do an activity together. So we brought in... They did a clay therapy activity together.
Just for something different. It was an hour of their time. It was just a way for them to just build the relationship with each other just in a different environment. So we've found it a really valuable tool. People have really embraced it. They really look forward to it. It's a safe space for them to share their experiences in there. So it's run by... We have a practise leader who sits across our family violence space. So our reflective practise is driven by that person. Yeah. I've found it really valuable.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
I think it's so important. And again, a beautiful example of not just supervisor support. But the other hazard around poor workplace relationships like with the clay exercise, about sometimes we actually need non-work activities to build trust and connection with each other. So I think that's so important.
I know there are some other things that you also do in addition to reflective practises, to try to help minimise that lack of supervisor support risk. Can you share what else you do?
Lisa:
Yeah. So obviously like the previous speaker spoke about team meetings, and bringing wellbeing on the agenda is really important. And wellbeing is on every supervision agenda for all the staff. Because I think, that's extremely important. But what I do is, I am part of those team meetings. When I feel that there's pressure on the team, or something's happened. Or I just feel that they need that extra level of support, I will attend the team meetings. And I've built trust with them around, that they can share their concerns. They can share their thoughts and thinking. I talk a little bit with them about the expectations from leadership, in regards to their roles and responsibilities. And that we can only do what we can do in a day. There's no pressure around that. We get caught up in the pressure of targets, and funding. And all those sorts of things.
But the reality is, we're all in this together. And we can only do what we can do in a day. And my leadership team with team leaders and that, it's our roles to facilitate and navigate this with our team. And that we are the voice voices for them when it comes to demand, and workload. And caseloads. And they need to know that it doesn't always just sit with them.
The other thing is, we celebrate special things. Celebrate a birthday. It's just a really simple thing. Everyone loves cake. Yeah. You just celebrate it. You spend 10 minutes celebrating something like that. Those little things just make a difference. We also give people the opportunity to be engaged in things across your organisations. We can always put our hand up and go, we don't have time. But if there is an activity across your organisation, or a working group. Or something different that's not your normal role, we give the team the licence to do that. Be part of that. Because that is giving your variety, a little bit of variety. Rather than just the day-to-day stuff that you have to do in this family violence space.
One of the other things that we've done more recently is obviously, we have the family violence graduate role. And these are new positions coming into the organisation that require training, and support. And guidance. So we involve our workers in those interview panels and those processes for them to embrace that environment, and understand the challenges that we face as leaders in recruitment and all those sorts of things. And that they take some ownership of that.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
Oh, I think you've muted accidentally.
Lisa:
There we go. Sorry.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
That's okay. So we got to, they take some ownership of the recruitment-
Lisa:
Yeah. And that they can help guide and work with this person, while they're in their team. And just make sure... We continually need to talk about, make sure that staff understand what targets, funding roles is about. And we openly talk about those sorts of things as part of our meetings, et cetera.
But I think for me, it's really important that I'm part of those conversations. And I'm part of the team process as well.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
I think that's such an amazing piece of role modelling, Lisa. And it's something for us all to think about as leaders in our organisation. Where are we showing up? Number one. Where are we being available, and accessible, and investing in those trusting relationships? Which aren't all just about the task, but sometimes most importantly about the social and the birthday. And the clay making, and things like that. And that, that is so much of our role as leaders. In seminar one, we had Kelly talking to us about she thinks about as a leader, that her caseload are her people. And that, that's her most important responsibility. I think the other piece you spoke to so importantly for us Lisa, is then as we're out and about, how are we providing clarity, and permission, and appreciation as leaders? So clarity on the targets and what's going on, to know that people... We have transparency, and people can ask us. And to the extent that we can share anything. We are there to share things.
The permission and the reminder that we can only get done what we can get done in a day. And so yes, there are the targets and the plans. And then there's the reality of what goes on every day. And there does have to be some adaptability between those sorts of things. And so we need that feedback from our people, to then push back up to the setting of the targets and things like that.
And then thirdly, I think that opportunity for them to be more involved in different parts of running the organisation. So that they are learning more about what's required. And not thinking that as leaders, you have it all figured out. You've got all the answers. There's some magic book or secret key that you got given. But actually, you are human as well. And if something isn't working on the ground, it's almost never from bad intent. But perhaps that we are not fully aware, or we are struggling with the resources as well. Or we need different input to figure it out. Does that sound right there, in terms of the many gifts you just gave us?
Lisa:
Yeah. For sure. I think they're all incredibly important parts. And sometimes, we lose sight of all those in.
PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [01:09:04]
Lisa:
... important parts. And sometimes, we lose sight of all those in the demands of the job.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
Yeah.
Lisa:
And it's important to bring ourselves back to that. And yeah, that's important.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
And I think part of what you... I know from our team working with yourself and your people at [inaudible 01:09:19], one of the things we notice is that humility that that takes as a leader to go, "I don't have it all figured out, I haven't gotten the answers," but to be transparent in the not knowing and in the inviting other people to help both inform and shape with you. Does that sound true?
Lisa:
Yeah. And I think you always lead with care and curiosity.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
Yeah.
Lisa:
And as a leader, you always have an open door policy. That's the way I lead. And I have that mentality like we're all in this together. We work in a hierarchical system, there's no doubt about that. But we don't lead like that. I don't lead like that. And I am really only as good as the team around me. So I think that's extremely important to go into that space. And what the other thing that I do, I try and emphasise, or ensure that we always bring it back to why we're all doing this work. Keep the women and the children at the centre of the work that we do. And we are always committed to improving the safety for women and children. That's why we all do this work.
So I think we often lose sight of that as well. So it's always good to just bring that back and place the women and children at the centre of the work that we do because that's why we're all here.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
Yeah, it's reminding me in Vikki Reynold's work that we were sharing in seminar one, her question around, when are we most alive in the work that we are doing to support those who depend on our care? And I think that's such an important way to compass back to our true north when some of the little bitty everyday things start to feel overwhelming.
Lisa:
Yeah.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
Lisa, thank you so much for your time and for sharing forth for those of us to learn from today. We're so grateful.
Lisa:
Thank you, Michelle.
Dr. Michelle McQuaid:
Wonderful. Again, in the chat, if you can share some appreciation, feedback, reflections, ahas, perhaps out of Lisa's gift for us today. I know that's super valuable for her. Again, not always easy to get on here with everybody and then know, "Oh, how am I going to go?" So as we get ready to wrap out here, we wanted to just leave you with two thoughts. One, I think the consistent theme we just heard in all of those beautiful stories is that we live in a world our questions create. And so, one of our most important tools as leaders around minimising psychosocial risk in both the identifying and then the actions we might recommend up to our organisations or our understanding of what's going on for our teams and what we may be able to try locally with them, is being willing to ask the questions.
And again, I'm going to come back to Colleen's beautiful question for us around, what would make the work easier and what resources do you need to help support you? It costs us nothing. We don't need budgets. We don't need permission to do it. We just need the courage and the willingness as leaders to keep opening up spaces for our teams to be able to talk honestly with us about what's unfolding for them. And then, to Lisa's beautiful point, in having the confidence to do that, we need to know that we are not expected to have all of the answers, right? We're going to ask these questions from that place of humility and curiosity and care, as Lisa spoke so beautifully too for us, to see what do our people need and how might we either co-design or co-think about those answers, and then as leaders, take responsibility for help paying them forward into our organisations.
So given so many hazards to navigate, I'm always asked by leaders, if there was just one thing I could do then that would make the biggest difference around minimising psychosocial risks, what might it be? Is there a super strategy, that as a leader, I can come away from this conversation today and prioritise one thing that I can do as I'm already going about my job, not adding it on top of everything else, that is going to make meeting my responsibilities around this a little easier, a lot more effective, and help me be consistent in my approach?
And the good news is, there is. The research actually shows us that there is a super strategy here that we can walk away and prioritise today. The even better news is that many of you're probably already doing this, but we want to make sure you have the conscious awareness to go, "Ah, yes, this is why that's important," and for you to be able to talk to your team and organisation about, "And this is why I'm doing this." So perhaps in the chat, just for a moment, if we can bring your voices in and invite each of you to pay forward what you have found perhaps already works for you to each other. If you are already doing things in your team that help people to navigate psychosocial risks, what is it that you do?
So Colleen gave us some beautiful questions. The example of the form that her team uses. Lisa spoke about reflective practises, embedding wellbeing in there, what she does as a leader walking the floor. Christie gave us the assessment tool and guide. Perhaps you're using those things. I'm going to take again a little sip of water here. And while I do, I'm going to ask you to get your typing fingers going there in the chat. We will help gather these ideas out of the chat and share them back forward. We'll de-identify people. But to share them forward as tools that you can use that, again, are based in the sector, created by the sector, for the sector, to help with this.
So as we're getting ready here to start wrapping things out, I'm going to ask you... I can see them starting to pop up. So Jordy's saying, "We've got reflective practise sessions. I can see our weekly team huddles for connection, wellbeing, info sharing," I love a good huddle, "wellbeing discussions in each supervision." Phyllis is saying, "Regular catch-ups, open door policy, like Lisa mentioned." Zoe's saying, "Regular check-ins on not just workload, but how we're feeling," so important Zoe, "and is there anything the team can do to support one another?" Beautiful. Judy's saying, "Validate feelings and responses. The open door policy for staff. I can see some themes here. Can you?"
Ellen is saying, "Active listening, walking meetings." Love a good walking meeting. It's what I call a two for one. I got your physical wellbeing and we got some social and emotional wellbeing going. "Inclusive team cultures that make members feel safe and valued." Amy saying, "Embedding wellbeing, scaling questions into supervision sessions." This is a great way. The other way I found a team used to work was they'd talk about how are they feeling with wellbeing and just do a thumbs pole around the table, like it's good, it's okay, it's not so good. So it was like on the count of three, show your thumbs so that everybody could just put it up there in a moment.
Amy's also saying, "Doing activities together to help the team navigate challenges and priorities." Jess is saying, "Formal reflective practise sessions, separate formal debriefing sessions." Danielle, "Weekly, regular catch-ups." Fantastic. Keep the ideas coming in there. Again, we'll help pull those out and send them back out. So you've got a bit of a toolkit around, okay, what already works in to the role modelling, the routines, the rituals, and the rules that you have in your workplace. Our research consistently shows that the more you can anchor in to what already exists, the reflective practises, the peer support, the open door and the like, into the rhythm you have for role modelling, routines, formal routines, informal rituals, like the cake for the birthdays, and the rules, the policies in that you have, the much easier it gets for your organisation to help create this safety net.
The super strategy in the midst of all of this, which we found in the research and that many of you are already using, but it helps us leaders for us to think about in terms of our top three or five priorities, this needs to stay up on that list, is that need to create psychological safety within our teams. And Professor Amy Edmondson talks about the fact that psychological safety is simply a shared belief that a team has, that we are safe to be able to speak up about things with each other, to ask for feedback, to give feedback, to raise risk issues, to take risks, to try new things. As Colleen was speaking so beautifully around things like, okay, what can we change about our admin requirements? What happens if we move to laptops? How can we design our existing physical space better for the different needs?
So to take risks together, knowing that sometimes they pay off and sometimes they don't. But no matter what happens there, we're going to keep learning alongside each other because the ways we work together are dynamic. These psychosocial risks are complex because the way we each experience them individually and collectively can be quite different. And so we're going to sit in the messiness of that and give each other the permission to keep talking openly, to be candid, to be vulnerable, to know that we will be heard and respected as we do so, and to know that we will do the best we can to try to action off that.
And if we can't, there's not the budget, the timing's wrong, we don't have the resources, there's a reporting limitation, to be honest about those things that we are facing together. So when we asked across the Australian workers back in September around the frequency of their experience of all those psychosocial hazards, the level of risk that they were encountering, we also asked separately to that around the levels of psychological safety that they were experiencing in their teams. And when we intersected this data with each other, an amazing pattern occurred that was true across every single one of the psychosocial hazards.
It's rare when you're measuring like 12 different items and you intersect another dimension, another factor with that, that you will see the same pattern occur over and over and over and over again. It's when you know that, oh, okay, there's something here that we should be paying attention to. And what we found is that when levels of psychological safety were high in teams, what you can see there is the teal colour, that green colour on the screen, for the work design hazards there at the bottom, we've got lack of role clarity and achievable job demands, low job control, reward and recognition.
And the reason that that teal column is lower for every single one of those hazards is that, where the teams were experiencing a high level of psychological safety, they felt able to speak up, to take risks and learn together, their frequency of the experience of the hazard every single time was significantly lower. And so we're not suggesting that psychological safety is a cure all for every psychological hazard. Yeah. What we are suggesting is that psychological safety plays a very important role in helping to minimise the risks that our people may be encountering, and doing all the other things that we've heard today from Lisa and Christie and Colleen and many that you shared in the chat, the open doors and the like are also important as well. Yeah.
But one of the things that's important is, the reason psychological safety is having this impact on our people is if we think about that ability to be able to speak up, about, "Hey, my job demand job [inaudible 01:21:26] it's feeling right out of balance and this is what I think is contributing to it and I'd appreciate some help please, leader and organisation, as to how we get this back to a better place." If we don't have that shared belief that it's safe to do so, that we're not going to be punished or penalised or thought of as a troublemaker or somebody that's difficult or always disrupting or demanding more, then we are not going to speak up about those things.
And so little psychosocial risks run the danger of becoming big psychosocial problems in our workplaces simply because they're not addressed, people don't feel safe to co-design with us, and we're not in the adapting as our context keeps changing around us together. So psychological safety, just like other wellbeing factors, absolutely works at a systems level across our organisations. We need to feel safe in ourselves. For some of us, feeling safe in ourselves because of our lived experiences, because of our neurological makeup can definitely be more challenging than it is for others. And so it's important to just be aware where your different team members might be on their levels of personal, we call it portable, because can I move between different people and situations and still feel safe? Safety levels. Yeah.
And if you have somebody who is more hyper aware, hypervigilant, perhaps because of life experiences or neurological functioning, knowing as a leader that perhaps we need to think about extra support around how that person feels safe with us, to be able to keep speaking up and asking for what they need. Absolutely at a team level. So how as leaders do we model? As Lisa and Colleen demonstrated so beautifully today that we are a safe space to talk to. And absolutely at an organisational level, again, our workplaces need to have that commitment to a culture of safety and care, not just compliance if our people are going to feel safe about sharing what's happening for them.
And then one little tool, and we'll leave this, we'll send this with you for the follow-up materials from today, is again, what Lisa and Colleen and I hadn't even shared this part of it. So it's so beautiful seeing it come up in their conversations. And Christie spoke at the end of her session about how do we make it part of team agendas. One of the easiest ways we find in teams for leaders is to use this kind of safety check chat and just asking our teams regularly, what's working well? Where are we struggling? What are we learning? And what do we want to try next?
Again, not with the responsibility that it's up to our team members to fix it at self-care, but that it is a collective care responsibility, but we want their input. And Lisa spoke so beautifully about the importance of knowing what's working well so we can build on the strengths of our current approaches to minimise psychosocial risk. We need to make it okay to talk about the struggle knowing there's no shame. This doesn't have to be a blame game, but we are in it to learn together so that little things don't become big problems. And what are we going to try? What can we impact within the resources that we have? What might we need to accept but keep an eye on to see context changes, resources become available, or simply stay attuned and mindful that this is an issue, knowing that this is this ongoing conversation we need to keep having.
So this could be part of reflective practise conversations. It could be part of supervisor conversations, it could be part of team agendas, it could be something that your workplace does regularly as a large group on a periodic basis, for example. And again, we'll send out this as a little poster in case it's a helpful reminder and a tool for you and your teams. I'm leaving you with this Vikki Reynolds quote because I think it wraps up today so beautifully that, "Sometimes the conversations we need to have will make us feel uncomfortable. And instead of striving for a sense of perfect safety, instead what we want to strive for is a sense of safe enough." I think sometimes we think psychological safety means we're all going to be best friends, it'll all be nice, we'll never talk about uncomfortable or awkward, difficult things again. That is not the promise, as I'm sure many of you already realise of psychological safety.
Instead, what psychological safety does is it helps calm down our brains' sometimes overprotective safety responses to just help us stay in the awkward, the clumsy, the painful sometimes, the disappointing, the frustrating conversations with each other, knowing that we have a shared commitment to caring for each other and figuring things out the best we can, to sitting at the table together rather than putting problems and issues between us.
So on that note, don't miss seminar three coming up on the 27th of April. Make sure you've registered. We'll send out the link again for this one. We have an amazing Aboriginal facilitator coming to guide that session for us around reflective practises through an Aboriginal experience. Also session four on the 30th of May. So again, we'll pop the link there. Don't forget you have the Safe and Equal self-assessment tool. You also have the PERMAH wellbeing survey that has been created for the family safety sector if you're wanting other ways to measure wellbeing. So again, we'll pop those links back in the chat.
And last but most importantly, we're popping a link in the chat now just for a quick two-minute survey on how you found today's session. With psychological safety in mind, know that you are always welcome to tell us what went well, where we struggled, where we can do better next time. Our commitment to you is to keep learning from these conversations together and making each one hopefully an even better and more valuable experience for you. We value so much that you spent 90 minutes of your day here with us or watching the recording perhaps as the case may be, as an investment and a commitment to your team, your workplace, your clients' health safety and wellbeing.
So thank you so much for joining us again today. We're going to put that link now in the chat for the survey. If you can click on that link and spend even just two minutes here as we wrap up completing the survey, we would be so grateful and it will help us make sure that the next session is even more of what you need. I'll leave you with this last thought as you're doing that from Dr. Amy Edmondson that, "The more we talk to each other, the more comfortable we become doing so." If you're feeling some of the questions or tools we've given you today might be a little weird in your team, just...
I'm always up front as a leader when I do that. "Hey, I went to this crazy workshop. They were talking about these questions. I thought perhaps we could try it. But I'm okay team if you want to call the fact that this doesn't feel right for us or it doesn't feel right for right now." So take the pressure off yourself, but know that the more we practise having these conversations with each other, the more comfortable they do get. I can absolutely attest to that now, having done this for many years with our team. And at the beginning of that, it was not natural or comfortable for me at all.
So I needed a lot of patience and permission to get to a place where Lisa's humility really was something I could role model for them. And then the best thing is for your team also, it will help them become more comfortable. What psychological safety gives us, Amy's research shows, is the ability for focused conversations, healthy debate, and the permission with each other to keep learning, experimenting and adapting as the world around us keep shifting and our needs as a team continue changing as well.
I'm Dr. Michelle McQuaid. It's been such a privilege and pleasure to be with you. Evie, thank you so much for all the support behind the scenes. Christie, Collin, Lisa, thank you for being our speakers today. And to the amazing team [inaudible 01:29:26], Sue and Amigo. Thank you so much for all of your support. And of course, Eleanor, who kicked us off today so beautifully. We look forward to seeing you for seminar three. Until then, take care and stay well. Thanks everyone. Have a great day.
PART 4 OF 4 ENDS [01:29:42]
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